SOS - Control Links and Salvos

cthia wrote:Was that his first command? Did he assume that ship and rank right out of the gate?

Did the Crown start out as a snotty?

Yes, the Crown Prince started out as a snotty. We weren't told of then-Crown Prince Roger, but we were told of several other Heirs Presumptive. The story of Michael Winton (Elizabeth III's brother) and Richard Winton (Edward I's son and Elizabeth II's nephew) are well-cronicled and both were Crown Prince of lowly military rank. In fact, Michael was already Crown Prince before enrolling at Saganami Island and made his snotty cruise as Crown Prince. Richard Winton had already graduated from OCS (not yet called Saganami) when he became Crown Prince upon his grandfather's abdication (King Michael I, of King Michael's Tower fame).

As for King Roger, the cover of House of Steel shows him with a single gold star above his medals on the left chest. HoS cronicles his story pretty well after HMS Daimyo and we know he never went back to commanding a ship, so that single star must denote his one and only hyper-capable command: a lowly DD (the only class whose service dates could match is Noblesse, but the name doesn't fit the theme).

cthia wrote:Was that his first command? Did he assume that ship and rank right out of the gate?

Did the Crown start out as a snotty?

I Will Build My House of Steel opens with a Letter to the Editor of the RMN professional journal, Proceedings of the Royal Manticoran Navy Institute, with a letter from Lieutenant R. Winton, then the executive officer of HMS Wolverine. Number 3675, 12th Month, 10th Day, 249 years After Landing. Which was followed by a response by Captain E. Janacek, the then Deputy Chef of Staff for Intelligence to the Second Space Lord, in Number 3676, 13th Month, 10th Day, 249 years After Landing.

Given the example set by Ensign Richard Winton aboard HMS Hercules during the Volsung invasion of the Manticore Binary System in 1543 PD, I don't think any of the Winton would have accepted assignments or promotions based on their name. During Roger's mental soliloquy just prior to the text cited above, he would have continued that tradition.

Yes, Roger Winton, Crown Prince of the Kingdom of Manticore, was a Snotty.

Fox2! wrote:

cthia wrote:Was that his first command? Did he assume that ship and rank right out of the gate?

Did the Crown start out as a snotty?

I Will Build My House of Steel opens with a Letter to the Editor of the RMN professional journal, Proceedings of the Royal Manticoran Navy Institute, with a letter from Lieutenant R. Winton, then the executive officer of HMS Wolverine. Number 3675, 12th Month, 10th Day, 249 years After Landing. Which was followed by a response by Captain E. Janacek, the then Deputy Chef of Staff for Intelligence to the Second Space Lord, in Number 3676, 13th Month, 10th Day, 249 years After Landing.

Given the example set by Ensign Richard Winton aboard HMS Hercules during the Volsung invasion of the Manticore Binary System in 1543 PD, I don't think any of the Winton would have accepted assignments or promotions based on their name. During Roger's mental soliloquy just prior to the text cited above, he would have continued that tradition.

Yes, Roger Winton, Crown Prince of the Kingdom of Manticore, was a Snotty.

Yes! I certainly hoped, and expected, that to be the case. That kind of tradition simply CANT be born out of patronage. Thank you Fox2!

The part about Janacek is suspect. The Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence? Another piece of forged correspondence? LOL

Nice letter. Serving with him must have been as much joy as it is with Honor.

cthia wrote:The part about Janacek is suspect. The Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence? Another piece of forged correspondence? LOL

Deputy Chief of Staff is a harmless position and one very likely to be attributed on a basis of patronage. The Second Space Lord needs someone to actually keep his/her affairs in order and that's the Chief of Staff. The Deputy doesn't need to do anything except sit there and learn. That's what a good Space Lord and Chief of Staff would try to do: find someone who would learn and then go on to bigger and better things. But not necessarily so for a bad pair.

In any case, Janacek can't have been completely bad. Even patronage can't get him very far if he doesn't put in some effort. Like Pavel Young: he'd have to actually command a smaller ship with some success (or at least no blemishes) before getting a CA. Capt. Young would probably have rotated to a staff position like Janacek in HoS before becoming Commodore, then Rear Admiral, etc. But Janacek probably never pissed of his XO so badly he'd actually work against his own CO.

I don't know if I can agree that it is a harmless position, because Second Space Lord for ONI isn't a harmless position. Remember, that was Pat Given's bailiwick. To prevent intelligence failures, you need to be on the ball. Which implies you need a team who is on the ball. Honor always had an exemplary Chief of Staff.

And, I'm thinking, that if he did his job, he should have learned something about how it all works. When White Haven told him, paraphrasing "I didn't think you could be even stupider, if I hadn't come here and seen it for myself," well, told to someone who had once worked in "Intelligence?," spoke VOLUMES.

The SK certainly can't afford for such a position to be vulnerable to patronage. But then, he did land the position, somehow.

cthia wrote:The SK certainly can't afford for such a position to be vulnerable to patronage. But then, he did land the position, somehow.

Note that he's arguing with Crown Prince Roger, not King Roger, so at this point the Star Kingdom has been at peace (save for pirate-stomping in Silesia) for a quite extended period. And Havenite expansionism was only seen as a threat to Mantiocre by a handful of far-sighted individuals.

Janacek was apparently a highly competent administrator. As a chief of staff, logistics executive or head of training and recruitment he'd have been fine.

You can see him as General George B. McClellan. A man who excelled at organizing and training the union army in the Civil War, but was terrible at leading it into battle. But was unable or was unwilling to recognize his flaws.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:Was that his first command? Did he assume that ship and rank right out of the gate?

Did the Crown start out as a snotty?

Yes, the Crown Prince started out as a snotty. We weren't told of then-Crown Prince Roger, but we were told of several other Heirs Presumptive. The story of Michael Winton (Elizabeth III's brother) and Richard Winton (Edward I's son and Elizabeth II's nephew) are well-cronicled and both were Crown Prince of lowly military rank. In fact, Michael was already Crown Prince before enrolling at Saganami Island and made his snotty cruise as Crown Prince. Richard Winton had already graduated from OCS (not yet called Saganami) when he became Crown Prince upon his grandfather's abdication (King Michael I, of King Michael's Tower fame).

As for King Roger, the cover of House of Steel shows him with a single gold star above his medals on the left chest. HoS cronicles his story pretty well after HMS Daimyo and we know he never went back to commanding a ship, so that single star must denote his one and only hyper-capable command: a lowly DD (the only class whose service dates could match is Noblesse, but the name doesn't fit the theme).

"Noblesse" essentially means "noble". The Daimyos were nobles in feudal Japan. So the name fits the class theme.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:The part about Janacek is suspect. The Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence? Another piece of forged correspondence? LOL

Deputy Chief of Staff is a harmless position and one very likely to be attributed on a basis of patronage. The Second Space Lord needs someone to actually keep his/her affairs in order and that's the Chief of Staff. The Deputy doesn't need to do anything except sit there and learn. That's what a good Space Lord and Chief of Staff would try to do: find someone who would learn and then go on to bigger and better things. But not necessarily so for a bad pair.

In any case, Janacek can't have been completely bad. Even patronage can't get him very far if he doesn't put in some effort. Like Pavel Young: he'd have to actually command a smaller ship with some success (or at least no blemishes) before getting a CA. Capt. Young would probably have rotated to a staff position like Janacek in HoS before becoming Commodore, then Rear Admiral, etc. But Janacek probably never pissed of his XO so badly he'd actually work against his own CO.

Janacek was an intelligence specialist, not a tactical track officer. He probably wouldn't;t have had a major command, unless it was one of the ONI specials.

I understand the logic in everyone's post, but for me, it keeps coming back to the requirements for that Chief of Staff position. Intelligence. He knew what the SK was facing, yet, he was sabotaging everyone else's efforts. His ass was on the line too if the war is lost. He was somewhat suicidal. That bespeaks intelligence?

Having beef with your most brilliant naval asset is one thing, but standing in her way when all she ever delivered is one success after another is intelligent? Putting your, arguably most brilliant, tactician/strategist on half pay is intelligent? Benching your most capable asset in ONI is intelligent? He was an outright idiot to bench Pat Givens. I'm not sure the asshole wasn't a MAlign agent the way he acted. Haven was shooting itself in the foot when it began shooting her own officers. Janacek was no different. I can't associate that with a good administrator. A good administrator administrates. They don't remove their best assets. What the heck did he WANT from Honor?

I can understand his decision regarding Basilisk. He didn't want to start a war by being too aggressive, but not seeing the writing on the wall disgraced his stint at ONI. I was truly gobsmacked to read that part of his resume in the letter. Wait, I remain gobsmacked.

Not being able to acknowledge his own flaws would be the pot calling the kettle black if I called him on that. But being suicidal?