SOS - Control Links and Salvos

cthia wrote:Try as I may, I can't figure out the logic here. Why cut the links of the next three salvos coming up next? In favor of adjusting the ones behind it? Why not adjust the three already ready to fire? Am I digesting this wrongly?

Loren Pechtel wrote:You direct your efforts to the missiles that will get the most benefit from shipboard guidance. Cut the links of the missiles that have good enough data to engage on their own, direct your efforts to the missiles that need a bit more help.

Remembering that the Apollo control missiles talk to each other and have fairly good AI. At Beowulf, with no FTL control the Apollo missiles destroyed two thirds of the attacking Solarian fleet.

cthia wrote:Try as I may, I can't figure out the logic here. Why cut the links of the next three salvos coming up next? In favor of adjusting the ones behind it? Why not adjust the three already ready to fire? Am I digesting this wrongly?

As Loren wrote, control the ones that need the most help and/or can be the most effective. The three salvos closest to the target are within about 80 seconds of striking (40 light-seconds away plus 30-40 seconds of flight time). Even the myopic sensors in those missiles can lock on the bright wedges of the ships they're supposed to target. But the ones after those still need help.

There's also "good enough."

cthia wrote:Try as I may, I can't figure out the logic here. Why cut the links of the next three salvos coming up next? In favor of adjusting the ones behind it? Why not adjust the three already ready to fire? Am I digesting this wrongly?

I guess "the next three salvos in the firing queue" could be read as either the next 3 to reach the enemy OR the next 3 to launch. But since you wouldn't have control links to unlaunched missiles I'm assuming it's next 3 to hit the enemy. So the 3 salvos farthest from the BC and closest to the enemy.

Loren Pechtel wrote:You direct your efforts to the missiles that will get the most benefit from shipboard guidance. Cut the links of the missiles that have good enough data to engage on their own, direct your efforts to the missiles that need a bit more help.

And at some point the salvo is so close to the targets than your next update would take longer to reach them than their remaining flight time. Firing on a target 45 lightseconds away (a fairly close 13.5 million km) if the Mk16s are within about 4.5 million km of their target they'll reach attack range and detonate before the next update can crawl the 45ish seconds out to them. (Those numbers would change somewhat depending on the relative velocities of the ships at that range; but they provide an idea)

No point in transmitting commands or update that a missile can only receive if it fails to reach attack range and sails past the enemy; unable to return.

(So once past that point any later salvo missile is more useful to talk to; the most extreme version of what you were saying)

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:Try as I may, I can't figure out the logic here. Why cut the links of the next three salvos coming up next? In favor of adjusting the ones behind it? Why not adjust the three already ready to fire? Am I digesting this wrongly?

I guess "the next three salvos in the firing queue" could be read as either the next 3 to reach the enemy OR the next 3 to launch. But since you wouldn't have control links to unlaunched missiles I'm assuming it's next 3 to hit the enemy. So the 3 salvos farthest from the BC and closest to the enemy.

Loren Pechtel wrote:You direct your efforts to the missiles that will get the most benefit from shipboard guidance. Cut the links of the missiles that have good enough data to engage on their own, direct your efforts to the missiles that need a bit more help.

And at some point the salvo is so close to the targets than your next update would take longer to reach them than their remaining flight time. Firing on a target 45 lightseconds away (a fairly close 13.5 million km) if the Mk16s are within about 4.5 million km of their target they'll reach attack range and detonate before the next update can crawl the 45ish seconds out to them. (Those numbers would change somewhat depending on the relative velocities of the ships at that range; but they provide an idea)

No point in transmitting commands or update that a missile can only receive if it fails to reach attack range and sails past the enemy; unable to return.

(So once past that point any later salvo missile is more useful to talk to; the most extreme version of what you were saying)

Ok! They're talking about the ships downrange! I read it as the next ships "in the queue" awaiting launch. Similar to being in the queue awaiting transit through the junction. I didn't see anything wrong with targeting info being fed to, and control links being assigned to, ships awaiting to be launched, getting ahead of the game.

Damn, I'm ashamed. Do you recall the touching moment Honor had with Megan Petersen? Wow, I love that moment. I'm sure Megan did too, being acknowledged and given such praise by the Salamander.

But I missed an important undertone when Honor spoke to her.

“I know people are going to compare Hypatia to Grayson,” the duchess said, and Megan managed not to blink at the way the older woman’s thought had followed her own. “I suppose that’s inevitable, given the similarities. Of course, the differences are a lot more significant than any of those idiot newsies are going to realize!”

She grimaced, and Megan surprised herself with a chuckle. Arngrim had returned to Manticore with dispatches, accompanying the Hypatian transport carrying the squadron’s survivors, barely two T-days earlier, and she’d already decided she’d rather face a salvo of Cataphracts than the Manticoran news corps any day!

“Better,” the duchess said approvingly, then laid a hand on Megan’s shoulder.

“I had a heavy cruiser to face a single battlecruiser,” she said more soberly. “The tech imbalance was a lot narrower than the one you had, but in a way, that only made the situation simpler. I mean, there weren’t a lot of fancy tactical options. You found a much more…elegant solution, and at least Hypatia doesn’t have steadings.”

They didn't have the same ships, but wasn't Honor's first real command, other than the mysterious LAC, also a DD? Hawkwing?

cthia wrote:Damn, I'm ashamed. Do you recall the touching moment Honor had with Megan Petersen? Wow, I love that moment. I'm sure Megan did too, being acknowledged and given such praise by the Salamander.

But I missed an important undertone when Honor spoke to her.

“I know people are going to compare Hypatia to Grayson,” the duchess said, and Megan managed not to blink at the way the older woman’s thought had followed her own. “I suppose that’s inevitable, given the similarities. Of course, the differences are a lot more significant than any of those idiot newsies are going to realize!”

She grimaced, and Megan surprised herself with a chuckle. Arngrim had returned to Manticore with dispatches, accompanying the Hypatian transport carrying the squadron’s survivors, barely two T-days earlier, and she’d already decided she’d rather face a salvo of Cataphracts than the Manticoran news corps any day!

“Better,” the duchess said approvingly, then laid a hand on Megan’s shoulder.

“I had a heavy cruiser to face a single battlecruiser,” she said more soberly. “The tech imbalance was a lot narrower than the one you had, but in a way, that only made the situation simpler. I mean, there weren’t a lot of fancy tactical options. You found a much more…elegant solution, and at least Hypatia doesn’t have steadings.”

They didn't have the same ships, but wasn't Honor's first real command, other than the mysterious LAC, also a DD? Hawkwing?

Correct, but every ship captain's first hyper command was a Destroyer (or a Frigate). Nobody rolls an SD on the first trip out.

Theemile wrote:
Correct, but every ship captain's first hyper command was a Destroyer (or a Frigate). Nobody rolls an SD on the first trip out.

Though interestingly I found out that in the classic age of sail royal navy a captain would often move from a sloop or brig to a 3rd or 4th rate ship of the line before advancing into a frigate. Now age of sail frigates were powerful ships, far more-so than that the sloops or brigs; but far less so than even a 4th rate ship of the line. (In more modern terms a AoS frigate is a heavy cruiser to possibly a small battlecruiser; while a 4th rate is a small dreadnought or possibly a semi-dreadnought)


However an AoS frigate was usually a detached command, or leading a squadron of smaller ships, and before letting a captain wander around freely with such a powerful and expensive ship the RN often wanted to season them further. Despite being even bigger and more expensive than frigates, in a 3rd or 4th rate ships you were under the close eye of an admiral at almost all times because those types of ships didn't get sent off on their own. So the captain often had less effective responsibility than that of a frigate.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Theemile wrote:
Correct, but every ship captain's first hyper command was a Destroyer (or a Frigate). Nobody rolls an SD on the first trip out.

Though interestingly I found out that in the classic age of sail royal navy a captain would often move from a sloop or brig to a 3rd or 4th rate ship of the line before advancing into a frigate. Now age of sail frigates were powerful ships, far more-so than that the sloops or brigs; but far less so than even a 4th rate ship of the line. (In more modern terms a AoS frigate is a heavy cruiser to possibly a small battlecruiser; while a 4th rate is a small dreadnought or possibly a semi-dreadnought)

However an AoS frigate was usually a detached command, or leading a squadron of smaller ships, and before letting a captain wander around freely with such a powerful and expensive ship the RN often wanted to season them further. Despite being even bigger and more expensive than frigates, in a 3rd or 4th rate ships you were under the close eye of an admiral at almost all times because those types of ships didn't get sent off on their own. So the captain often had less effective responsibility than that of a frigate.

In the Honorverse, a SD/DN/CLAC command has to be boring in comparison to that of a CA or BC Captain. Absolutely nothing to do in peace time for the heavy metal, wher the BC and CA are constantly patroling and showing the flag when they are not called to swat a pirate. Even in wartime, a CA and BC would still be used in continual small ship operations (convoy duty, raids, fleet escort, pounce the picket, recon in force, etc), whee ras a Capital ship would have the rare day of terror, followed by months of boredom.

Then no need to be ashamed for missing something like that. So I'm not late to the party, good. I was thinking about Henke, who started in a Heavy Cruiser? Her rank was high, but still.

And, as far as we know, Young's first command is Warlock?

Will Megan be promoted?

Theemile wrote:
In the Honorverse, a SD/DN/CLAC command has to be boring in comparison to that of a CA or BC Captain. Absolutely nothing to do in peace time for the heavy metal, wher the BC and CA are constantly patroling and showing the flag when they are not called to swat a pirate. Even in wartime, a CA and BC would still be used in continual small ship operations (convoy duty, raids, fleet escort, pounce the picket, recon in force, etc), whee ras a Capital ship would have the rare day of terror, followed by months of boredom.

At least CLACs sometimes get sent off to augment cruiser forces. That might happen some in peacetime too. But yes, SD(P)s are just going to sit in fleet and drill; maybe occasionally breaking up the monotony some with a 'show the flag' visit; but those are mostly done by BCs.

Though in wartime you could get unlucky with your DD flotilla assignment and spend the whole war attached to Home Fleet to provide close escort for the heavies. Some DDs and cruisers get interesting assignments; but those assignments don't always rotate; so not every small ships get interesting assignments. Still, your odds are vastly better there.