Collin's assassination list

ThinksMarkedly wrote:That introduces a lot of complexity into the picture. Getting one assassin in the room with the target while the circumstances are ideal is difficult enough. Ensuring you have two who weren't coordinating their presence in the first place means you have a very small chance of actually getting all three together at a suitable time. Unless of course it's someone who's always with the target (a bodyguard), but that means you've got far more access than is typical.

I don't think we need to worry about treecats understanding diversions. They're very intelligent. The problem is when it's not a diversion, but a two-prong attack: that is, when either prong can accomplish the goal. A single treecat may not be able to stop both.

Though people important enough for whom the MAlign would go for a two-prong assault will probably have two-leg bodyguards and/or nearby Marines. Similarly, they probably have poison screening in their food: it's far easier for the MAlign to infect someone in the kitchen staff to drop some poison in the target's food than to get someone in position for direct assassination.

The MAlign will have to get far more creative and the GA needs to not become lax in its security measures.

At the better restaurants—a category in which Dempsey's is certainly a part despite its name—there are commonly Hostesses, waitstaff, busboys and the occasional conscientious owner and chef all on the floor simultaneously. Dempsey's would be a perfect place to assassinate by means of a one-two combination. Formal government settings and aboard warships is where it becomes tactically difficult to pull off one-two punches.

Although, poison does seem the way to go at a restaurant.

I also wanted to add a sommelier to the number of possible people on the floor at the better restaurants, but I suppose too many people drink Old Tilman to count on that.

At any rate, how many assassinations have been attempted at restaurants thus far? At least three? Restaurants are simply ideal. The MAlign simply needs to step up the number of transformers. LOL

cthia wrote:At the better restaurants—a category in which Dempsey's is certainly a part despite its name—there are commonly Hostesses, waitstaff, busboys and the occasional conscientious owner and chef all on the floor simultaneously. Dempsey's would be a perfect place to assassinate by means of a one-two combination. Formal government settings and aboard warships is where it becomes tactically difficult to pull off one-two punches.

Assassinate how? Bare hands? None of those people are likely to be legitimately carrying anything that can be used as a weapon. Carrying a concealed poison and not realising they're doing so, like Rat Poison, is itself a trigger and would be noticed by the treecat the moment they enter the room, while there's still sufficient time to leave.

And in such a crowded room with lots of RMN and RMMC personnel, you'd also have to contend with third parties interfering. Marines are not going to stand by if someone brandishes with a weapon. The treecat does not have to deal with this diversion.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:At the better restaurants—a category in which Dempsey's is certainly a part despite its name—there are commonly Hostesses, waitstaff, busboys and the occasional conscientious owner and chef all on the floor simultaneously. Dempsey's would be a perfect place to assassinate by means of a one-two combination. Formal government settings and aboard warships is where it becomes tactically difficult to pull off one-two punches.

Assassinate how? Bare hands? None of those people are likely to be legitimately carrying anything that can be used as a weapon. Carrying a concealed poison and not realising they're doing so, like Rat Poison, is itself a trigger and would be noticed by the treecat the moment they enter the room, while there's still sufficient time to leave.

And in such a crowded room with lots of RMN and RMMC personnel, you'd also have to contend with third parties interfering. Marines are not going to stand by if someone brandishes with a weapon. The treecat does not have to deal with this diversion.

Carrying a legitimate weapon in Dempseys? No. In fact, I would imagine Dempseys own personal security preventing weapons being smuggled into the establishment may be an issue as well. But MAlign intervention can certainly circumvent that too.

However, I thought everyone would make the connection with the same tactic used on Torch. Remember, the nanite conditioning made the perfume salesperson overlook the weaponized canister on his person which he momentarily wondered how it got there. Remember, this is a one-two punch.

My point of this exercise is to assume at some point the MAlign will take their gloves off, just like Michelle. The bad news is that when the galaxy becomes aware of the technique, then there is no longer a reason to use it sparingly, or with caution.

Addendum to the above.

The waiter carrying the poisoned food does not have to know the food has been poisoned, therefore will not broadcast anything to the cats. Remember, Honor's crew did not know Young had poisoned the celery. Nimitz suspected absolutely nothing, and greedy guts ate himself into a stupor.

cthia wrote:Carrying a legitimate weapon in Dempseys? No. In fact, I would imagine Dempseys own personal security preventing weapons being smuggled into the establishment may be an issue as well. But MAlign intervention can certainly circumvent that too.

However, I thought everyone would make the connection with the same tactic used on Torch. Remember, the nanite conditioning made the perfume salesperson overlook the weaponized canister on his person which he momentarily wondered how it got there. Remember, this is a one-two punch.

The internal dialogue the salesperson had proved that the was already under control. He was thinking it was a great idea to bring perfumes because girls always like it, but he was trying to remember how he'd got them in the first place, then suddenly seem to forget he had anything at all. The question is how long Genghis (the treecat) was in the room while he was having this internal conflict.

Also, if he had known what to look for, would Genghis have acted earlier?

My point of this exercise is to assume at some point the MAlign will take their gloves off, just like Michelle. The bad news is that when the galaxy becomes aware of the technique, then there is no longer a reason to use it sparingly, or with caution.

No doubt about that.

cthia wrote:The waiter carrying the poisoned food does not have to know the food has been poisoned, therefore will not broadcast anything to the cats. Remember, Honor's crew did not know Young had poisoned the celery. Nimitz suspected absolutely nothing, and greedy guts ate himself into a stupor.

True too, but does the kitchen staff know who the patrons in the sitting room are? In a very high end restaurant, the chef might come and greet high-profile clients, but direct contact is exactly what the MAlign doesn't need. So how will the would-be poisoner know to poison?

Maybe don't use nanites for this. Poisoning has worked for nearly 5000 years of human civilisation at that point without nanite help. A conscious poison assassin would know to pay attention to the sitting room or have unwitting accomplices, but never come within mind-glow range of a treecat.

cthia wrote:Addendum to the above.

The waiter carrying the poisoned food does not have to know the food has been poisoned, therefore will not broadcast anything to the cats. Remember, Honor's crew did not know Young had poisoned the celery. Nimitz suspected absolutely nothing, and greedy guts ate himself into a stupor.

IIRC properly, at some point Young is reflecting on his shower "encounter" with Honor, in furtherance of which one of his cronies had drugged Nimitz. Young was remembering his regret, apparently after attempting to assault Honor, and being used to scrub the showers instead, that his buddy had not put enough poison into the celery to have killed Nimitz.

Did Young not think that, with the King and Crown Princess both having been adopted by tree cats, that the death of a tree cat at Saganami Island would not be investigated, and that the full weight of RMNCIS and probably Palace Security, would not descend on the Island once the necroscopy revealed the presence of the poison? And that what ever other tree cats were on the Island, or whose Person could get them on the Island, would not be poking around themselves?

Even without the ability to Sign, the confederate would eventually find him (or, unlikely, her) self surrounded by treecats, and eventually human investigators? In Honor Among Enemies, it is stated that serving members do not have the right against self-incrimination. He would be reminded that the plea deal bus only has one seat, and the first one to come clean gets it. He might be allowed to resign from the Academy, rather than facing a long stretch in the Royal Manticoran Disciplinary Barracks. Which are probably on Gryphon. Where he could spend a long time making icebergs into ice cubes.

cthia wrote:Addendum to the above.

The waiter carrying the poisoned food does not have to know the food has been poisoned, therefore will not broadcast anything to the cats. Remember, Honor's crew did not know Young had poisoned the celery. Nimitz suspected absolutely nothing, and greedy guts ate himself into a stupor.

Fox2 wrote:IIRC properly, at some point Young is reflecting on his shower "encounter" with Honor, in furtherance of which one of his cronies had drugged Nimitz. Young was remembering his regret, apparently after attempting to assault Honor, and being used to scrub the showers instead, that his buddy had not put enough poison into the celery to have killed Nimitz.

Your memory is just slightly off. Young poisoned the celery himself. He simply used his buddy to deliver the payload. Had his buddy been in on it, Nimitz would have easily picked up on the subterfuge.

Fox2 wrote:Did Young not think that, with the King and Crown Princess both having been adopted by tree cats, that the death of a tree cat at Saganami Island would not be investigated, and that the full weight of RMNCIS and probably Palace Security, would not descend on the Island once the necroscopy revealed the presence of the poison? And that what ever other tree cats were on the Island, or whose Person could get them on the Island, would not be poking around themselves?

I totally agree as I stated in the referenced thread on the previous page, link included. But good point, part and parcel behind my post in that thread that Young risked a nasty investigation, being that the entire thing could have been misconstrued as an assassination attempt on Nimitz, launching a full investigation. He also risked a lot of collateral damage.

Fox2 wrote:Even without the ability to Sign, the confederate would eventually find him (or, unlikely, her) self surrounded by treecats, and eventually human investigators? In Honor Among Enemies, it is stated that serving members do not have the right against self-incrimination. He would be reminded that the plea deal bus only has one seat, and the first one to come clean gets it. He might be allowed to resign from the Academy, rather than facing a long stretch in the Royal Manticoran Disciplinary Barracks. Which are probably on Gryphon. Where he could spend a long time making icebergs into ice cubes.

Indeed, as I also stated in the "Honor, Nimitz and Pavel Young" thread, the cats would have found Young immediately and tore him to shreds, if there was anything left after Honor was done with him. You do not want to be the subject of a treecat APB. LOL

Read that thread beginning with the cotinine poisoning whose link I included on the previous page. There's lots of good food for thought in that thread.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:Carrying a legitimate weapon in Dempseys? No. In fact, I would imagine Dempseys own personal security preventing weapons being smuggled into the establishment may be an issue as well. But MAlign intervention can certainly circumvent that too.

However, I thought everyone would make the connection with the same tactic used on Torch. Remember, the nanite conditioning made the perfume salesperson overlook the weaponized canister on his person which he momentarily wondered how it got there. Remember, this is a one-two punch.

The internal dialogue the salesperson had proved that the was already under control. He was thinking it was a great idea to bring perfumes because girls always like it, but he was trying to remember how he'd got them in the first place, then suddenly seem to forget he had anything at all. The question is how long Genghis (the treecat) was in the room while he was having this internal conflict.

Also, if he had known what to look for, would Genghis have acted earlier?

True, and that's a very important point and distinction. I'm thinking the Cats can, and will, react only to clear and present malice or danger. There is no danger in internal conflict, or a Cat couldn't be around humans at all. Especially the military. Only when a subject goes ballistic is when there is danger. It goes back to a notion Annachie and I coined of the more subtle uses of the nanite tech. It doesn't always have to be used to kill, but might also be used to obtain something completely innocuous like signing a document.

The important distinction you have fingered is that a gun—or any other traditional weapon—will clearly be recognized as a weapon to the drone, which might cause too much internal strife. Whereas, in the case of the perfume salesman, the canister was just an innocent afterthought. But likewise, any unobtrusive weapon would work quite nicely. Like a bomb-rigged version of her compact.

cthia wrote:The waiter carrying the poisoned food does not have to know the food has been poisoned, therefore will not broadcast anything to the cats. Remember, Honor's crew did not know Young had poisoned the celery. Nimitz suspected absolutely nothing, and greedy guts ate himself into a stupor.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:True too, but does the kitchen staff know who the patrons in the sitting room are? In a very high end restaurant, the chef might come and greet high-profile clients, but direct contact is exactly what the MAlign doesn't need. So how will the would-be poisoner know to poison?

Maybe don't use nanites for this. Poisoning has worked for nearly 5000 years of human civilisation at that point without nanite help. A conscious poison assassin would know to pay attention to the sitting room or have unwitting accomplices, but never come within mind-glow range of a treecat.

I think under most circumstances, no. But for high profile clients, yes. What owner wouldn't want to know if Abigail Hearns, or someone lordly was dining at his establishment so that special attention to detail can be ensured. After all, a bad review from someone like Miss Owens could irrevocably damage a restaurant's reputation. Plus, Dempsey's computer scans the faces of its clients as they enter the restaurant and transmits that information to an earbug worn by the server. It would be child's play for an Alpha to intercept that info, the orders, and the table or booth.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:The internal dialogue the salesperson had proved that the was already under control. He was thinking it was a great idea to bring perfumes because girls always like it, but he was trying to remember how he'd got them in the first place, then suddenly seem to forget he had anything at all. The question is how long Genghis (the treecat) was in the room while he was having this internal conflict.

Also, if he had known what to look for, would Genghis have acted earlier?

Genghis was seemingly in the room for more than a few minutes, as they were there specifically to sample everyone's minds, keep in mind Queen Berry was already several minutes later (I think it was well over 30mins to be exact). Presumably Genghis and his human were there from just before all the Solarian perfume representatives started arriving, and gone through preliminary security (Palace Gates sort of check).

There were clearly just enough company representatives the nanite infectee slipped through the initial security checks and it took Genghis and his human quite a while to notice exactly 1 briefcase with samples being in the entire room and that clued them in to move to go take a second closer look. Except by that point it was too late, Queen Berry arrived and that triggered Genghis into attack mode.

Up until that triggering, the agent in question was in more of an almost visible high because he kept forgetting why he even had the briefcase or samples only to keep 'reminding' himself.. so a low-grade hypnosis or nanite mental control was clearly constantly kicking to keep him on task.

He wasn't ex-military (that we know about) so something like hypnosis should certainly work. A very simple message "you are to give the Queen these gift perfumes and convince her to talk with your/our company for further trade deals" would keep him on task with the 'gifts', until the nanites spot the target (Berry) and engage with the mission of hitting the detonation switch and killing everybody.


But since he'd been in the same room as Genghis for possibly as long as an hour (arrival, basic security check, Berry being late), that low-grade hypnosis and/or non-physical nanite control is all but confirmed as undetectable to treecat senses. Same thing as Tim Meares trying to kill Honor.. surely he was in the same room with her at least once before he finally triggered on flag bridge, but she never once sensed a thing until Tim activated and pulled Spencer's pulser.

That seems to be the threshold, the moment the nanites actually take physical control and your mind goes into the backseat screaming; no treecat or Harrington can sense the lurking threat. Anything before hand, and you're effectively Agent 47, invisible yet in plain sight and nobody knows just how close Death is lurking.