SVW NIKE vrs House of Steel NIKE

Was reading SVW; something I have not done in a VERY long time(decade at least) and noticed something odd:

SVW RELIANT(NIKE lead ship captained by Honor) vrs House of Steel RELIANT

SVW: 6L 10G 25M 2ET 879,000ton
HOS: 8L 6G 22M 2ET 877,500ton

I know dieting is all the rage, and I need to do so , but why would DW, RFC, 1SL, procurer of Jane's technical specs of all things Honorverse do so?

Does ANYONE know why they are different? I know this is super nit picky, but does anyone know why the retcon? It is not like RELIANT is very close to the specs of a Dreadnaught(Bellerphon) and needed a pruning.

<< Shrugs >>

Maybe the SVW Nike was a Flight II? SVW saw it commissioned eight or nine years after HoS says the Reliant class came out.

If I had to hazard a guess separate from the Great Resizing, etc. and the fact that a team of folks helped RFC build the tables which are very precise in terms of the math, it would be...

...that later flight Nike(s) had the Grayson's internal compensator plus the FTL commmunication capable built in from the keel out vs. as a retrofit. Plus we know that BC-413 also had a newer form of "ceramic + whatever super-alloy included" armoring scheme. Those three systems alone would change the mass and other specs enough to account for the differences.

munroburton wrote:Maybe the SVW Nike was a Flight II? SVW saw it commissioned eight or nine years after HoS says the Reliant class came out.

The SVW Nike WAS the first flight II. it had updated specs over the Flight I. It was mentioned at the beginning of the SVC - iirc when they were discussing handing the ship to her.

Theemile wrote:

munroburton wrote:Maybe the SVW Nike was a Flight II? SVW saw it commissioned eight or nine years after HoS says the Reliant class came out.

The SVW Nike WAS the first flight II. it had updated specs over the Flight I. It was mentioned at the beginning of the SVC - iirc when they were discussing handing the ship to her.

SVW still does not come close to aligning with HoS if we presume Flight II.
EDIT: Reliant Flight II is 1915 and 24M 6G, 4L and 934,250tons
So...

SharkHunter wrote:If I had to hazard a guess separate from the Great Resizing, etc. and the fact that a team of folks helped RFC build the tables which are very precise in terms of the math, it would be...

...that later flight Nike(s) had the Grayson's internal compensator plus the FTL commmunication capable built in from the keel out vs. as a retrofit. Plus we know that BC-413 also had a newer form of "ceramic + whatever super-alloy included" armoring scheme. Those three systems alone would change the mass and other specs enough to account for the differences.

While that is 100% true, one does not go from
22M to 25M
6G to 10G
improved structure to save weight
+add FTL
with an overall weight savings, unless the new alloys save a gigantic amount of weight

Flight II has 24M and 6G, 4L, but lots more CM/PD with a new bloated 50,000tons. If one assumes*** trade extra PD's for the old Grasers/lasers which have proven ~useless in modern combat, then one is still left with an extra missile tube/magazine and ~ roughly 50,000tons extra. I will assume*** some of that bloat are extra RD's which have grown in size and number, and more power missiles which now require more powerful sidewall generators while keeping the structure the same. Oh yea, FLight II will need some tonnage for BOW/STERN walls + Buckler.

Relax wrote:

Theemile wrote:The SVW Nike WAS the first flight II. it had updated specs over the Flight I. It was mentioned at the beginning of the SVC - iirc when they were discussing handing the ship to her.

SVW still does not come close to aligning with HoS if we presume Flight II.
EDIT: Reliant Flight II is 1915 and 24M 6G, 4L and 934,250tons
So...

There are no stats provided for Flight II in HoS. The 1915 version was the Flight III/IV(my copy of HoS is the eARC, did this change?).

Flight I: 877,500, 1896, 22M, 8L, 6G, 2ET, 10CM, 10PD
Flight II: 879,000 tons, 1904, 25M, 6L, 10G, 2ET, ??CM, ??PD
Flight III/IV: 934,250 tons, 1915, 24M, 4L, 6G, 18CM, 18PD

Courvosier: 903,750 tons, 1904, 26M, 8G, 16CM, 16PD

I can't check SVW at the moment, does it give PD/CM numbers for HMS Nike?

SharkHunter wrote:If I had to hazard a guess separate from the Great Resizing, etc. and the fact that a team of folks helped RFC build the tables which are very precise in terms of the math, it would be...

...that later flight Nike(s) had the Grayson's internal compensator plus the FTL commmunication capable built in from the keel out vs. as a retrofit. Plus we know that BC-413 also had a newer form of "ceramic + whatever super-alloy included" armoring scheme. Those three systems alone would change the mass and other specs enough to account for the differences.

Later flight Reliants may have Grayson compensators, but not BC-413. Honor assumed command less than 6 months after she returned from Grayson, which is when the alliance was established. There's not enough time to learn what the Graysons had done to their compensators, apply the know-how to Manticoran technology and include in the ship. The same applies to the GSN Office of Shipbuilding's choice of prioritising grasers: hadn't happened yet. BC-413 was already nearly finished when Honor returned home.

She probably did have FTL communicators, since that's a technology the RMN was deploying. HMS Troubadour had one retrofitted, so it makes sense that new builds had it from the keel up.

The difference in mass is negligible. We can assume that's just normal deviation between ships of the same class. They aren't all exactly alike and there may have been some learnings since HMS Reliant launched four years earlier. The FTL comm itself may be a reason.

I'd say the same if two lasers had been swapped for one graser on each broadside, which could have been prompted by having a better power plant. But replacing 2 lasers with 4 grasers and 3 more missile launchers is highly unlikely in-universe. Grasers are bigger and would probably require a larger frame to fit.

This discrepancy probably needs an outside explanation and my guess is the Great Resizing. In SVW, the Nike is described as over 1500 m long, but by HoS, the Reliants are no more than 714 m long. The contemporaneous Bellerophon-class DN, which is 80% longer and twice the draught (3.6x the broadside surface area, roughly), had 18 grasers per broadside. 18/3.6 = 5.

munroburton wrote:There are no stats provided for Flight II in HoS. The 1915 version was the Flight III/IV(my copy of HoS is the eARC, did this change?).

Flight I: 877,500, 1896, 22M, 8L, 6G, 2ET, 10CM, 10PD
Flight II: 879,000 tons, 1904, 25M, 6L, 10G, 2ET, ??CM, ??PD
Flight III/IV: 934,250 tons, 1915, 24M, 4L, 6G, 18CM, 18PD

Courvosier: 903,750 tons, 1904, 26M, 8G, 16CM, 16PD

I can't check SVW at the moment, does it give PD/CM numbers for HMS Nike?

No, the numbers are still accurate.

munroburton wrote:
There are no stats provided for Flight II in HoS. The 1915 version was the Flight III/IV(my copy of HoS is the eARC, did this change?).

Flight I: 877,500, 1896, 22M, 8L, 6G, 2ET, 10CM, 10PD
Flight II: 879,000 tons, 1904, 25M, 6L, 10G, 2ET, ??CM, ??PD
Flight III/IV: 934,250 tons, 1915, 24M, 4L, 6G, 18CM, 18PD

Courvosier: 903,750 tons, 1904, 26M, 8G, 16CM, 16PD

I can't check SVW at the moment, does it give PD/CM numbers for HMS Nike?

My ebook copy of HOS (non-earc) agrees with your Flight I and Flight III-IV data; and there's still no Flight II data there.

I also checked SVW and I can't find anything indicating the PDLCs or CMs that Nike carried. The appendix where Sultan is compared to Nike only gives offensive weapons (both chase and broadside); not defensive. And the text, from my searches, mentions the defenses in action but doesn't give numbers.

The only mention of her defenses there is about sidewall strength. "Although she was less than three percent more massive overall, Nike's side-walls were ten percent tougher than Sultan's, and her energy weapons were fifteen percent more massive (and much more powerful) on a mount-for-mount basis."
And somewhere in the text it talks about her new armor.