If Honor had died...

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:So, although there's no textev to the fact. The data points seem to support it.

It appears like that, but the sample is too small. We don't know enough treecat adoption to be able to say for sure.

But there's more quite critical circumstantial evidence. Hidden, unprecedented talents manifested with the Galaxy's most accomplished genie. Who happens to be a member of a lost Mesan line. And promises of more of the same are present with Honor's offspring.

True it's a small sample up to bat. But the batting average is .999.

cthia wrote:That only leaves Harahap and Abigail. Abby is a genie too. Harahap is modified as well though I'm not certain he is a genie, although textev supports his very sharp mind. All the other data points are genies. Unless I missed a Cat or two?

Abigail Hearns is not bonded with a cat. The only point about a genie and bonding is when the genetic change did something to the mind glow. There is no evidence that the changes for survival on Grayson did anything there.

In recent history there are many more bonds with the Wintons than to the Harringtons. I hope you are not going to claim that the Wintons are also a lost alpha line.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:So, although there's no textev to the fact. The data points seem to support it.

It appears like that, but the sample is too small. We don't know enough treecat adoption to be able to say for sure.

And some of that sample is seems skewed. The adoption rate of Wintons lately pretty clearly shows the 'cats had been making a special effort to attempt adoption during visits to Sphynx. And IIRC Honor even suggested as much.

So even within the tiny sample size it seems we have is a mix of chance random adoptions and more deliberate attempts to expose as many 'cats as possible to potential adoptees.

cthia wrote:So, although there's no textev to the fact. The data points seem to support it.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:It appears like that, but the sample is too small. We don't know enough treecat adoption to be able to say for sure.

Jonathan_S wrote:And some of that sample is seems skewed. The adoption rate of Wintons lately pretty clearly shows the 'cats had been making a special effort to attempt adoption during visits to Sphynx. And IIRC Honor even suggested as much.

So even within the tiny sample size it seems we have is a mix of chance random adoptions and more deliberate attempts to expose as many 'cats as possible to potential adoptees.

In the House of Steel section on the relationship of the cats to the Crown, it puts those suggestions down as conspiracy theories. We know from the text that the Wintons' modification include intelligence changes. So it could be an effect of both mind glow and exposure, putting the effort more on the side of the Crown than the cats. From Ashes of Victory, chapter 17:

"At any rate," Allison went on briskly, "I've come to suspect that an unintended consequence of the IQ enhancer effort, both in the Harrington line and, quite possibly, in the Winton line, was something that makes you more attractive, as a group, to treecats. Given that we know the 'cats are empaths, I'm inclined to think that the confluence of the IQ package as a whole makes you . . . call it 'brighter' or 'tastier' to the 'cats. As if your 'emotional aura' were stronger or more pronounced. Possibly more stable."

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:That only leaves Harahap and Abigail. Abby is a genie too. Harahap is modified as well though I'm not certain he is a genie, although textev supports his very sharp mind. All the other data points are genies. Unless I missed a Cat or two?

Abigail Hearns is not bonded with a cat. The only point about a genie and bonding is when the genetic change did something to the mind glow. There is no evidence that the changes for survival on Grayson did anything there.

In recent history there are many more bonds with the Wintons than to the Harringtons. I hope you are not going to claim that the Wintons are also a lost alpha line.

Abigail is not bonded, but Rachel Mayhew is - is she a genie - other than the mods required to live on Grayson of course?

fallsfromtrees wrote:Abigail is not bonded, but Rachel Mayhew is - is she a genie - other than the mods required to live on Grayson of course?

She doesn't seem to be any more of a genie than any other Grayson. They didn't have the technology to do genetic modifications until very recently and being isolated for a millennium meant that they all shared the same mods.

So if treecats are especially attracted to the Grayson mods, we should see more adoptions of Graysons, possibly in a higher proportion than Sphinxians (all Graysons have the mods; not all Sphinxians do).

tlb wrote:From Ashes of Victory, chapter 17:

"At any rate," Allison went on briskly, "I've come to suspect that an unintended consequence of the IQ enhancer effort, both in the Harrington line and, quite possibly, in the Winton line, was something that makes you more attractive, as a group, to treecats. Given that we know the 'cats are empaths, I'm inclined to think that the confluence of the IQ package as a whole makes you . . . call it 'brighter' or 'tastier' to the 'cats. As if your 'emotional aura' were stronger or more pronounced. Possibly more stable."

That's a very good hypothesis on Allison's part, but it's not proven. Correlation is not causation and there could be other explanations, or at least other reasons for a high correlation. The treecats did make a special effort to expose more of their individuals to the Winton heirs, in an effort to find a match. They also knew about the Harringtons (Death Fang's Bane's Clan), so the same could apply.

And yet we know of no other Harringtons that have been adopted, besides Stephanie and Honor. We think we know why Alfred wasn't, but what about the rest of the clan? Alfred also had two sisters. I suppose it's simply never come up, but that's an argument for our sample size being simply too small.

tlb wrote:From Ashes of Victory, chapter 17:

"At any rate," Allison went on briskly, "I've come to suspect that an unintended consequence of the IQ enhancer effort, both in the Harrington line and, quite possibly, in the Winton line, was something that makes you more attractive, as a group, to treecats. Given that we know the 'cats are empaths, I'm inclined to think that the confluence of the IQ package as a whole makes you . . . call it 'brighter' or 'tastier' to the 'cats. As if your 'emotional aura' were stronger or more pronounced. Possibly more stable."

ThinksMarkedly wrote:That's a very good hypothesis on Allison's part, but it's not proven. Correlation is not causation and there could be other explanations, or at least other reasons for a high correlation. The treecats did make a special effort to expose more of their individuals to the Winton heirs, in an effort to find a match. They also knew about the Harringtons (Death Fang's Bane's Clan), so the same could apply.

And yet we know of no other Harringtons that have been adopted, besides Stephanie and Honor. We think we know why Alfred wasn't, but what about the rest of the clan? Alfred also had two sisters. I suppose it's simply never come up, but that's an argument for our sample size being simply too small.

Since the Grayson modifications have nothing specific to do with mental process, there is no reason to assume that they would be more attractive to cat bonding. Rachel Mayhew was bonded to Hipper and Miranda LaFollet was bonded to Farragut (both killed in the Yawata strike).

Saying the cats made a special effort to bond to the Wintons is at least an equally unproven hypothesis as saying saying their minds were more in tune. It would require that cats understood human social structure. So maybe, but as you point out, we do not know.

tlb wrote:Saying the cats made a special effort to bond to the Wintons is at least an equally unproven hypothesis as saying saying their minds were more in tune. It would require that cats understood human social structure. So maybe, but as you point out, we do not know.

They understood enough to see that the Wintons ruled. IIRC, the first time we hear "Soul of Steel" is actually in the phrase "Soul of Steel's Clan". That allowed them to be close to someone who could protect them (with policies, if not with force) as well as provide their stabilising influence on someone who clearly could use that.

Whether that led to higher adoption rates or not, we don't know.

tlb wrote:Saying the cats made a special effort to bond to the Wintons is at least an equally unproven hypothesis as saying saying their minds were more in tune. It would require that cats understood human social structure. So maybe, but as you point out, we do not know.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:They understood enough to see that the Wintons ruled. IIRC, the first time we hear "Soul of Steel" is actually in the phrase "Soul of Steel's Clan". That allowed them to be close to someone who could protect them (with policies, if not with force) as well as provide their stabilising influence on someone who clearly could use that.

Whether that led to higher adoption rates or not, we don't know.

But was that true when the first Winton bonded? "Soul of Steel" is Queen Elizabeth (correct?) and by her reign the cats had learned enough to begin using sign language.

tlb wrote:I only know of two examples where cats formed new bonds when their original partner died. King Roger's treecat, Monroe, was aroused by depression upon finding the person responsible for the murder and then bonded with Elizabeth's brother, Michael. Samantha survived because she was pregnant and mated to Nimitz, then later bonded to Hamish Alexander.

So if Honor had died in battle, perhaps Nimitz could have bonded to James MacGuiness. But I do not think it could have been with just anyone.

Monroe bonded with Justin, not Michael, in the aftermath of discovering (and killing) Roger III's murderer (and saving Justin's life, in the process).