Growing the Honorverse: towards Haven as a map centerpoint?

Though we don't know where RFC will take us next yet, in the meantime, there's this peace dividend because the MAlign does not seem ready to reinstigate interstellar conflict for a while.

Meanwhile, a paper shows up on Pritchart's desk requesting some technical expertise for shipbuilding.... a number of Harvest Joy class exploration vehicles. The goal is to find a whole bunch of wormholes that go outbound from the RoH, not towards the galactic core. Likely her character thinks this to be a grand idea -- hey look at the "Bolthole Benefit", and Elizabeth seems inclined to agree. There's also some defensive value to making sure no one else find them first right. Plus the RMM's gotta do something to make money with all those nearly mothballed merchie hulls, right?

Three questions: what should the SEM ask for in return, how to encourage the emigration and colonization, and... and significantly within my puzzlement... would this give RFC a place to give us a "Baen's Bar" style story playground out there in the nether region of space out thataway, so long as we don't screw up the main plot lines?

SharkHunter wrote:Though we don't know where RFC will take us next yet, in the meantime, there's this peace dividend because the MAlign does not seem ready to reinstigate interstellar conflict for a while.

Meanwhile, a paper shows up on Pritchart's desk requesting some technical expertise for shipbuilding.... a number of Harvest Joy class exploration vehicles. The goal is to find a whole bunch of wormholes that go outbound from the RoH, not towards the galactic core. Likely her character thinks this to be a grand idea -- hey look at the "Bolthole Benefit", and Elizabeth seems inclined to agree. There's also some defensive value to making sure no one else find them first right. Plus the RMM's gotta do something to make money with all those nearly mothballed merchie hulls, right?

Three questions: what should the SEM ask for in return, how to encourage the emigration and colonization, and... and significantly within my puzzlement... would this give RFC a place to give us a "Baen's Bar" style story playground out there in the nether region of space out thataway, so long as we don't screw up the main plot lines?

An open society would have a much harder time setting up something like Bolthole, although there is a definite benefit. Emigration and colonization are fine, but are not things that fit together with a secret location in general.

I think that in the near term there would be much more benefit to Haven (which only owns the wormhole to Bolthole) than to Manticore. Manticore will be concentrating on improvements to Silesia and the Talbot Quadrant. Since there is no way to tell where they connect; the search is for wormholes, not specifically for wormholes directed outward. Any wormhole that facilitates commerce would dramatically help Haven.

PS. Do not hold your breath waiting for the author to make it easy for fanfic. If you are already writing fanfic, then you can find that wormhole yourself.

RFC's view on fan-fic makes sense to me.

He simply doesn't want to know that it exists, so he's not going to set up something on his own site for it. He's aware that people write unauthorized, non-canon stories but he makes it a point not to condone doing it and intentionally avoids reading it.

He does it out of self defense.

If you write a story and come up with a plot device or point that he later uses in a book, it opens up all sorts of legal issues for him.

How can he prove that you aren't a co-author and, therefore, deserve a cut of the money?

What defense would he have if you sued for part of the profits?

How is his publishing contract written concerning co-authors? Could an unauthorized co-author void it?

His main defense, legally, would be that he wasn't aware of your work, hadn't read your work and came up with the same or similar idea independently.

Having a fan-fic section on his own website would make it well nigh to impossible to prove that he didn't read your hypothetical work and make it much more plausible that he ripped you off.

This is also the reason that he doesn't want unsolicited fan-fic sent to him. If he doesn't have easy access to it, it becomes less likely that he saw it and intentionally or unintentionally incorporated not his own something into a published work.

Let's not forget that this is a business for him and a main source of income. It's only prudent that he protects himself from unnecessary legal and financial entanglements.

jtg452 wrote:RFC's view on fan-fic makes sense to me.

He simply doesn't want to know that it exists, so he's not going to set up something on his own site for it. He's aware that people write unauthorized, non-canon stories but he makes it a point not to condone doing it and intentionally avoids reading it.

He does it out of self defense.

If you write a story and come up with a plot device or point that he later uses in a book, it opens up all sorts of legal issues for him.

I've heard several authors state this and follow the policy, but has it ever actually happened?
Specifically a fan suing for copyright infringement against the main body author.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with his stance, and it's good for just in case. Just gotta wonder how likely it is to actually happen.

ZVar wrote:
I've heard several authors state this and follow the policy, but has it ever actually happened?
Specifically a fan suing for copyright infringement against the main body author.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with his stance, and it's good for just in case. Just gotta wonder how likely it is to actually happen.

If you were in their situation, would you like to be the one that tests out your theory?

After all, it's just their livelihood and the additional costs of defending themselves in court.

As scheming and greedy as people are these days, I wouldn't be surprised to discover that it's already happened.

There was something like that that happened, but I can’t remember or find the details right now. It was ugly. Copyright on derivative works is complex, but in general you don’t want to include other people’s property in your work without permission, or it might not be your work. And they shouldn’t give you permission without you signing something saying you won’t sue and it’s your problem if you get sued, etc.

Like most copyright law, there are probably a lot of grey areas and determining whether you are doing something illegal typically requites a lot of expensive lawyers spending many expensive hours discussing whether you should pay lots of money or not.

It’s like the standard for whether something is fair use or not. Those are not safe harbors, those are ways your lawyer can suggest to the judge to use when he determines whether it was fair use or not. Your lawyer, who you are paying many, many dollars per hour.

kzt wrote:There was something like that that happened, but I can’t remember or find the details right now. It was ugly. Copyright on derivative works is complex, but in general you don’t want to include other people’s property in your work without permission, or it might not be your work. And they shouldn’t give you permission without you signing something saying you won’t sue and it’s your problem if you get sued, etc.

Like most copyright law, there are probably a lot of grey areas and determining whether you are doing something illegal typically requites a lot of expensive lawyers spending many expensive hours discussing whether you should pay lots of money or not.

It’s like the standard for whether something is fair use or not. Those are not safe harbors, those are ways your lawyer can suggest to the judge to use when he determines whether it was fair use or not. Your lawyer, who you are paying many, many dollars per hour.

I found this site that gives a summary of USA case law:
https://www.trademarkandcopyrightlawblo ... now-about/

Note that in addition to copyright problems, people can also run into trademark issues.

SharkHunter wrote:Though we don't know where RFC will take us next yet, in the meantime, there's this peace dividend because the MAlign does not seem ready to re-instigate interstellar conflict for a while.

<snip>

We know that from the reader's standpoint, but in the Honorverse we are just a little over a week from the Malign blowing up Beowulf's infrastructure. No one, except the MAlign, knows that the MAlign is pulling in their horns. Honor JUST blew up Sol in reprisal, forcing the SL congress to vote to make a new constitution. Even if the shooting is over, the wars aren't. There will lots of need for lots of big bad ships to float around menacingly.

Any peace dividend is miles down the road and the MAlign has turned into the Spanish Inquisition - no one expects it. No one could foresee what it has done in the past, and no one can expect what will happen next. Worst, they know they didn't squash the Malign and the navy of invisible ships it wields. So the phantom threat will exist for a very long time.

Yes, there is discussion of standing down the fleet in lieu of the end of the Havenite war. But that is long off.

BTW, the Harvest Joy was a retired CL - her class was never mentioned. Nothing special other than some extra sensors and more freezers/h2 storage then usual. Anyhing new would probably be custom built or a refurb of a retired class. The surviving Illustrius class, Star Knight or Edward Saganami-A class would be a perfect group to modify to a Survey type - relatively young, fairly high tech, and easy enough to support. Unfortunately 2 wars have winnowed their numbers and put extra years of wear on their hulls and components.

An important point to remember about exploration in the Honorverse, ships which left earth in the final days of the cryoship era are just now passing Manticore. Cryo expeditions will be landing at their final locals for the next 1000 years. An interesting plot that we have not seen is a survey ship running into a system where the inhabitants just arrived and are still stripping the colony ship or have just stabilized their culture in the last couple years (within a generation or so of landing).

Theemile wrote:An important point to remember about exploration in the Honorverse, ships which left earth in the final days of the cryoship era are just now passing Manticore. Cryo expeditions will be landing at their final locals for the next 1000 years. An interesting plot that we have not seen is a survey ship running into a system where the inhabitants just arrived and are still stripping the colony ship or have just stabilized their culture in the last couple years (within a generation or so of landing).

In the history of Manticore in House of Steel, when the colony ship arrived there was already a small settlement and a force of 4 frigates to serve as protection funded by the colony trust fund. That was 600 years ago, so do we really expect that there are still sub-light colony ships flying?

tlb wrote:

Theemile wrote:An important point to remember about exploration in the Honorverse, ships which left earth in the final days of the cryoship era are just now passing Manticore. Cryo expeditions will be landing at their final locals for the next 1000 years. An interesting plot that we have not seen is a survey ship running into a system where the inhabitants just arrived and are still stripping the colony ship or have just stabilized their culture in the last couple years (within a generation or so of landing).

In the history of Manticore in House of Steel, when the colony ship arrived there was already a small settlement and a force of 4 frigates to serve as protection funded by the colony trust fund. That was 600 years ago, so do we really expect that there are still sub-light colony ships flying?

the first Wedge powered colony ship left in 1284. Manticore is 512 light years from Sol. A ship leaving earth in the decade before the Icarus, traveling ~80% the speed of light would just be passing Manticore about now. Assuming that all such voyages would be further much than Manticore (because all the closer habitable planets were already spoken for) such ships still have hundreds of years left before they reach their destination - by my math, some may still be in space in 500 years.