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OOPS

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Re: OOPS
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:33 pm

TFLYTSNBN

Loren Pechtel wrote:
cthia wrote:Not necessarily. The current yield of our present nuclear bombs is limited only by our inability to solve the problems that have been solved in the Honorverse. I would imagine there are insane yields of nuclear devices in the Honorverse. After all, nuclear energy is nothing if not efficient.


There's no point to bigger bombs--once you get past 20 megatons the bomb's destruction doesn't go up much as you increase the yield.

There is one mission for bigger bombs--orbital bombs, either for EMP or thermal pulse. (A big enough bomb can light fires out to the horizon--and from very low orbit the horizon is very far away.)

We also know how to build bigger bombs. A normal hydrogen bomb uses the energy of an atomic bomb to compress the lithium deutride. The size of the bomb is limited by how much energy you have to compress it. (Which is not the full energy as you can only catch what's heading in the right direction.) There are two things you can do to increase the energy, though:

1) Most of the energy of the fission bomb just heads off in a direction without a second stage. You can place several second stages around the fission trigger (although using more than two second stages ends up with a bomb like a caltrop or jack, a pain to handle!) Each stage must be alike so they go off at exactly the same time. (You don't need nanosecond level timing, though--the fusion stage's timing is based on the materials used, no clock is involved.)

2) Fusion bombs are normally triggered by fission bombs but anything energetic enough will do the job. You can detonate a fusion bomb with another fusion bomb--stacking a second fusion stage in line with the first (it must be shielded from the fission stage by the first fusion stage or it will be destroyed before it detonates.) You now have megatons of energy to play with rather than just kilotons, the third stage can be considerably bigger than the second. You can even have a line of a fission bomb bracketed by two second stages which are bracketed by two third stages. If that's not enough you can extend the line with ever-bigger stages. There's no upper limit.


You are presuming a spherical bomb geometry rather than cylindrical. Once a relatively low yield fission bomb "ignites" a fusion reaction, that fusion reaction in concert with an X-ray reflecting casing can be exploited to create a shockwave in a cylinder of Li-D fusion fuel resulting in a bomb of arbitrarily large yield. The process can be enhanced by using U-238 in the casing that can either reflect of absorb Neutrons, sometimes resulting in a fission reaction, that releases more Neutrons. The Lithium-6 isotope then absorbs the Neutrons to fission into Tritium or Helium-3 Wich then fuses with the Deuterium.

There is a reason why high yield Hydrogen bombs are cylindrical or conical.
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Re: OOPS
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:00 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:You are presuming a spherical bomb geometry rather than cylindrical. Once a relatively low yield fission bomb "ignites" a fusion reaction, that fusion reaction in concert with an X-ray reflecting casing can be exploited to create a shockwave in a cylinder of Li-D fusion fuel resulting in a bomb of arbitrarily large yield. The process can be enhanced by using U-238 in the casing that can either reflect of absorb Neutrons, sometimes resulting in a fission reaction, that releases more Neutrons. The Lithium-6 isotope then absorbs the Neutrons to fission into Tritium or Helium-3 Wich then fuses with the Deuterium.

There is a reason why high yield Hydrogen bombs are cylindrical or conical.


You're not rebutting me, just describing what I'm talking about--another, larger fusion stage. Note that it can't be arbitrarily large, just an awful lot larger than you can set off with a fission blast.
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Re: OOPS
Post by tlb   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:25 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:Presumably those are capacitor powered - rather than a microfusion power plant. Even the full up extended range Mark 14 and Mark 36 ERM and LERMs are still capacitor powered because even in a full anti-ship missile with a 11+ million km range the capacitors are more compact than a microfusion plant plus fuel would be. It's only the even larger DDMs where you switch.

Yes I know RFC has claimed that various things are powered by "plasma capacitors" but however the capacitors work they'd need a pretty good shelf-life in their charged state - so they shouldn't need a fresh slug of plasma just before launching.

kzt wrote:Plasma capacitor powered. So as it cools down from 50,000,000K where does the heat go?

I just started the reread of Ashes of Victory and in the drawings at the beginning there is an exploded view of the Ghost Rider MDM. There it says the capacitor is a superconducting coaxial design. So doesn't that mean that the stored medium is electricity, rather than plasma?
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Re: OOPS
Post by kzt   » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:02 am

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tlb wrote:I just started the reread of Ashes of Victory and in the drawings at the beginning there is an exploded view of the Ghost Rider MDM. There it says the capacitor is a superconducting coaxial design. So doesn't that mean that the stored medium is electricity, rather than plasma?

No, David has been very clear that they are full of plasma. This seems to only matter when it is convenient...
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Re: OOPS
Post by cthia   » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:40 am

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kzt wrote:
tlb wrote:I just started the reread of Ashes of Victory and in the drawings at the beginning there is an exploded view of the Ghost Rider MDM. There it says the capacitor is a superconducting coaxial design. So doesn't that mean that the stored medium is electricity, rather than plasma?

No, David has been very clear that they are full of plasma. This seems to only matter when it is convenient...

David could have borrowed from Larry Niven, who employs a superconductor of heat.

Now I know why the're called Ghost Riders. That isn't a ghost of an image you're seeing. It's a mirage, caused by heat.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: OOPS
Post by tlb   » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:05 am

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kzt wrote:Plasma capacitor powered. So as it cools down from 50,000,000K where does the heat go?
tlb wrote:I just started the reread of Ashes of Victory and in the drawings at the beginning there is an exploded view of the Ghost Rider MDM. There it says the capacitor is a superconducting coaxial design. So doesn't that mean that the stored medium is electricity, rather than plasma?

kzt wrote:No, David has been very clear that they are full of plasma. This seems to only matter when it is convenient...

For the shoulder fired anti-vehicle missile, the operator must have really big shoulder pads then. I just do not see how that could work in a practical sense. Room temperature superconducting capacitors using electricity I can understand.
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Re: OOPS
Post by cthia   » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:30 pm

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tlb wrote:
kzt wrote:Plasma capacitor powered. So as it cools down from 50,000,000K where does the heat go?
tlb wrote:I just started the reread of Ashes of Victory and in the drawings at the beginning there is an exploded view of the Ghost Rider MDM. There it says the capacitor is a superconducting coaxial design. So doesn't that mean that the stored medium is electricity, rather than plasma?

kzt wrote:No, David has been very clear that they are full of plasma. This seems to only matter when it is convenient...

For the shoulder fired anti-vehicle missile, the operator must have really big shoulder pads then. I just do not see how that could work in a practical sense. Room temperature superconducting capacitors using electricity I can understand.

Why? The system may only need enough plasma for a few shots. Then there are refill cartridges. The metal used for the bazooka can be super lightweight and strong. A high tech dampening system could reduce recoil.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: OOPS
Post by tlb   » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:51 pm

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kzt wrote:Plasma capacitor powered. So as it cools down from 50,000,000K where does the heat go?
tlb wrote:I just started the reread of Ashes of Victory and in the drawings at the beginning there is an exploded view of the Ghost Rider MDM. There it says the capacitor is a superconducting coaxial design. So doesn't that mean that the stored medium is electricity, rather than plasma?

kzt wrote:No, David has been very clear that they are full of plasma. This seems to only matter when it is convenient...

tlb wrote:For the shoulder fired anti-vehicle missile, the operator must have really big shoulder pads then. I just do not see how that could work in a practical sense. Room temperature superconducting capacitors using electricity I can understand.

cthia wrote:Why? The system may only need enough plasma for a few shots. Then there are refill cartridges. The metal used for the bazooka can be super lightweight and strong. A high tech dampening system could reduce recoil.

That was an oblique comment on the heat (not the recoil), if plasma is the source of energy for a shoulder fired missile with a wedge - see KZT's comment that I had as a lead. Do you believe that there are plasma refill cartridges? I thought that had been offered as a joke before.

Is it possible that smaller anti-vehicle missiles use a superconducting capacitor holding electricity; while big anti-ship missiles use the plasma capacitors? So the drawing in the book was from a transitional period?
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Dazzlers and Dragon's Teeth
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:52 pm

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cthia wrote:Now I know why the're called Ghost Riders. That isn't a ghost of an image you're seeing. It's a mirage, caused by heat.


I've been meaning to ask but didn't want to start a thread about them: Dazzlers and Dragon's Teeth, which one is which? They're always described together, as the non-warhead missiles that are seeded throughout missile salvoes. One produces a huge burst of energy that temporarily blinds the sensors of the enemy and the other is an EW platform that makes it look like the salvo is 4x as big or so, so the enemy doesn't know which signals to fire upon.

But I don't remember a description of which one is which.
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Re: Dazzlers and Dragon's Teeth
Post by Fox2!   » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:59 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:Now I know why the're called Ghost Riders. That isn't a ghost of an image you're seeing. It's a mirage, caused by heat.


I've been meaning to ask but didn't want to start a thread about them: Dazzlers and Dragon's Teeth, which one is which? They're always described together, as the non-warhead missiles that are seeded throughout missile salvoes. One produces a huge burst of energy that temporarily blinds the sensors of the enemy and the other is an EW platform that makes it look like the salvo is 4x as big or so, so the enemy doesn't know which signals to fire upon.

But I don't remember a description of which one is which.


The Dazzlers are the ones which "dazzle" the enemies sensors with a burst of energy. The Dragon's Teeth are the ones which create multiple false images, often in conjunction with the Dazzlers causing the enemy to lose lock on the incoming wave of ship killers. When the Dazzlers burn out, the enemy sees many times the number of incoming he was seeing just a few minutes ago. And there's no guarantee that extrapolating the course of the missiles from before the Dazzlers activated will tell you where the actual targets are.
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