Mesan Alignment post war

cthia wrote:When I first encountered your premise, I wondered what the hell could have happened on Darius to make the MA see the light. By jove I've got it!

An uprising! A civil war! The slaves on Darius heard about the exploits of one particular slave. Jeremy X. Information cannot be stifled. The grapevine will find an ear, even on Darius. Just as Honor's exploits preceded her to Hell, so too has Jeremy's heroism been carried to the ears of the slaves on Darius to spark an uprising.

CIVIL WAR ON DARIUS!

Do you mean that it is the Übermensch that has fled the aftermath of a revolt? The scenario was that an off-shoot of Darius still wanted to pursue a path to genetic improvement.

Whether or not there is a possibility of a grapevine about Jeremy X or a Civil War on Darius; why would any of that cause ordinary people to transplant themselves a hundred light years away from the nearest settled world? If the underclass on Darius took control, wouldn't they just open communication to the rest of humanity?

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:When I first encountered your premise, I wondered what the hell could have happened on Darius to make the MA see the light. By jove I've got it!

An uprising! A civil war! The slaves on Darius heard about the exploits of one particular slave. Jeremy X. Information cannot be stifled. The grapevine will find an ear, even on Darius. Just as Honor's exploits preceded her to Hell, so too has Jeremy's heroism been carried to the ears of the slaves on Darius to spark an uprising.

CIVIL WAR ON DARIUS!

Do you mean that it is the Übermensch that has fled the aftermath of a revolt? The scenario was that an off-shoot of Darius still wanted to pursue a path to genetic improvement.

Whether or not there is a possibility of a grapevine about Jeremy X or a Civil War on Darius; why would any of that cause ordinary people to transplant themselves a hundred light years away from the nearest settled world? If the underclass on Darius took control, wouldn't they just open communication to the rest of humanity?

I never said anything about taking control. I am talking about spurring change. How probable do you think it is for African Americans to take control, as opposed to spurring change?

cthia wrote:When I first encountered your premise, I wondered what the hell could have happened on Darius to make the MA see the light. By jove I've got it!

An uprising! A civil war! The slaves on Darius heard about the exploits of one particular slave. Jeremy X. Information cannot be stifled. The grapevine will find an ear, even on Darius. Just as Honor's exploits preceded her to Hell, so too has Jeremy's heroism been carried to the ears of the slaves on Darius to spark an uprising.

CIVIL WAR ON DARIUS!

tlb wrote:Do you mean that it is the Übermensch that has fled the aftermath of a revolt? The scenario was that an off-shoot of Darius still wanted to pursue a path to genetic improvement.

Whether or not there is a possibility of a grapevine about Jeremy X or a Civil War on Darius; why would any of that cause ordinary people to transplant themselves a hundred light years away from the nearest settled world? If the underclass on Darius took control, wouldn't they just open communication to the rest of humanity?

cthia wrote:I never said anything about taking control. I am talking about spurring change. How probable do you think it is for African Americans to take control, as opposed to spurring change?

Since the scenario under discussion is an off-shoot of Darius moving many light years away from settled space to pursue its own path; please explain why this would occur if all you mean is something spurring change? Why this change, unless Darius became inhospitable?

You were the one to write of "civil war" to "spark an uprising" and all you mean is a change in attitudes? Since African Americana are still a minority, while the underclass on Darius were the majority, I do not see what one has to do with the other.

cthia wrote:When I first encountered your premise, I wondered what the hell could have happened on Darius to make the MA see the light. By jove I've got it!

An uprising! A civil war! The slaves on Darius heard about the exploits of one particular slave. Jeremy X. Information cannot be stifled. The grapevine will find an ear, even on Darius. Just as Honor's exploits preceded her to Hell, so too has Jeremy's heroism been carried to the ears of the slaves on Darius to spark an uprising.

CIVIL WAR ON DARIUS!

tlb wrote:Do you mean that it is the Übermensch that has fled the aftermath of a revolt? The scenario was that an off-shoot of Darius still wanted to pursue a path to genetic improvement.

Whether or not there is a possibility of a grapevine about Jeremy X or a Civil War on Darius; why would any of that cause ordinary people to transplant themselves a hundred light years away from the nearest settled world? If the underclass on Darius took control, wouldn't they just open communication to the rest of humanity?

cthia wrote:I never said anything about taking control. I am talking about spurring change. How probable do you think it is for African Americans to take control, as opposed to spurring change?

tlb wrote:Since the scenario under discussion is an off-shoot of Darius moving many light years away from settled space to pursue its own path; please explain why this would occur if all you mean is something spurring change? Why this change, unless Darius became inhospitable?

You were the one to write of "civil war" to "spark an uprising" and all you mean is a change in attitudes? Since African Americana are still a minority, while the underclass on Darius were the majority, I do not see what one has to do with the other.

I don't have the qualifications to determine the absolute outcome of a civil war on Darius. I do believe, that if the MA completely stopped their appalling practices, renounced any aspirations of galactic domination, and ceased their slave lines and actually begin giving them some sort of quality of life, then that in itself will be a huge start for the MA and Darius.

The slave lines have to crawl before they can walk. Look how long Apartheid went on in South Africa, atop the backs of the majority.

From the onset, I envisioned Darius to be located in such an extreme system that non modified humans cannot live. In fact, I envision their population to have heavy modifications to live in that system -- where nobody would think to look for them. If their heavy genetic manipulation were to discontinue, people may not be able to live in such an entreme environment. It could also be that people wish to leave the system due to irreconcilable differences.

At any rate, I can conceive of a Civil War putting them on the right track to a humanity that is indeed human and humane. In that light, of course they would want to become a part of all of humanity.

cthia wrote:From the onset, I envisioned Darius to be located in such an extreme system that non modified humans cannot live. In fact, I envision their population to have heavy modifications to live in that system -- where nobody would think to look for them. If their heavy genetic manipulation were to discontinue, people may not be able to live in such an entreme environment. It could also be that people wish to leave the system due to irreconcilable differences.

If that were true, then how would Houdini ever work? I do not think that there is any indication that Darius requires specific modifications to permit normal life.

Given an extreme environment, once the initial modifications are made; then nothing more needs to be done to permit life to go on. That is, you do not need to make continual modifications as long as all children receive those mods as part of their genetic make-up. Only children born without the required mods would need to be adjusted.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:From the onset, I envisioned Darius to be located in such an extreme system that non modified humans cannot live. In fact, I envision their population to have heavy modifications to live in that system -- where nobody would think to look for them. If their heavy genetic manipulation were to discontinue, people may not be able to live in such an entreme environment. It could also be that people wish to leave the system due to irreconcilable differences.

If that were true, then how would Houdini ever work? I do not think that there is any indication that Darius requires specific modifications to permit normal life.

Given an extreme environment, once the initial modifications are made; then nothing more needs to be done to permit life to go on. That is, you do not need to make continual modifications as long as all children receive those mods as part of their genetic make-up. Only children born without the required mods would need to be adjusted.

Actually, it was mentioned in CoG that Mesa itself was such a planet - Settlers were "Mesaformed" to survive there. No detail on what that means. Probably something to allow metabolizing local proteins. Current visitors don't seem to have an issue there either.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:From the onset, I envisioned Darius to be located in such an extreme system that non modified humans cannot live. In fact, I envision their population to have heavy modifications to live in that system -- where nobody would think to look for them. If their heavy genetic manipulation were to discontinue, people may not be able to live in such an entreme environment. It could also be that people wish to leave the system due to irreconcilable differences.

If that were true, then how would Houdini ever work? I do not think that there is any indication that Darius requires specific modifications to permit normal life.

Given an extreme environment, once the initial modifications are made; then nothing more needs to be done to permit life to go on. That is, you do not need to make continual modifications as long as all children receive those mods as part of their genetic make-up. Only children born without the required mods would need to be adjusted.

We don't REALLY know that Houdini, HAS worked. It seems it has, but I'm accustomed to receiving curve balls from the author. Even if it's simply a slider -- a second phase of Houdini that relocates each individual elsewhere under assumed identities. Sort of a "Witness Protection Program." Also, perhaps the modifications needed to survive in the system aren't as pressing because of advanced medicines, treatments that will enable living there, temporarily. Or as annoying medical treatments. :shrug:

tlb wrote: Do you mean that it is the Übermensch that has fled the aftermath of a revolt? The scenario was that an off-shoot of Darius still wanted to pursue a path to genetic improvement.

However, your notion of the Übermensch is enticing. I came across the Übermensch when I was assisting a professor with her dissertation. A group of colleagues and I discussed it at length. Interestingly, the conversation turned religious. It will always turn religious, especially when you factor in Nietzsche. Interesting, because, what if the slaves found religion. A religious war on Darius? Perhaps even the Alphas, some of the Alphas, eventually see the light that the Universe bears a Creator.

And if the Alphas did flee from a religious or civil war, they would be in the perfect position to set Darius up. They can point the finger to where they are, and the GA will exact revenge for them. The Inner Onion can set Darius up to be destroyed.

A very unlikely scenario, I agree. But, well, yea.

Unless something was left out of the description and planning for Houdini, it has worked- sort of. The described intent was shift the people in Inner levels of the Onion plus various others to Darius (well Darius show up eventualy) and to do it in such a way as to make it look like they all died. No mass killings, just many of them die of various causes and accidents. Family members who are not appropirately "inside" are left witout their loved one who is suitably buried (or whaterver on Mesa) and life will continue until the Alignment initiates the calling down of suitably insenced segments of the broker League and Haven to come clean out the den of Iniquity that is Mesa. What we know know is that the Alignment had a planned final event - what Albrect triggered with the emplaced nuclear weapons at important Alignment locations across the planet, and out in space within the system.
What we don't know is exactly how many people not actualy usualy on Mesa would be part of Houdini. We do know that there were a lot more people which would have originaly taken off but when they had to rush Houdini they drasticly trimmed the Houdini list (it's just bodies) and got rid of a lot of them in the rounds of "Ballroom" attacks and then the wave which was to "tidy up" before the final flourish.
They did, however, work really hard to get out those that they considered important to the ongoing operations and research even if they might not have been more than lightly involved in the Onion- like Zack McBride- than others.

How many people outside of certain individual in the RF and various clandestine operatives has the Aligment left behind on purpose? And how many of the people who were working for Manpower and represent a significant resource in moving goods and people and information will have survived? And survived means also that they were not just liqidated by Alignment operatives.

Will not know till it comes out in plot line.

Brigade XO wrote:Unless something was left out of the description and planning for Houdini, it has worked- sort of. The described intent was shift the people in Inner levels of the Onion plus various others to Darius (well Darius show up eventualy) and to do it in such a way as to make it look like they all died. No mass killings, just many of them die of various causes and accidents. Family members who are not appropirately "inside" are left witout their loved one who is suitably buried (or whaterver on Mesa) and life will continue until the Alignment initiates the calling down of suitably insenced segments of the broker League and Haven to come clean out the den of Iniquity that is Mesa. What we know know is that the Alignment had a planned final event - what Albrect triggered with the emplaced nuclear weapons at important Alignment locations across the planet, and out in space within the system.
What we don't know is exactly how many people not actualy usualy on Mesa would be part of Houdini. We do know that there were a lot more people which would have originaly taken off but when they had to rush Houdini they drasticly trimmed the Houdini list (it's just bodies) and got rid of a lot of them in the rounds of "Ballroom" attacks and then the wave which was to "tidy up" before the final flourish.
They did, however, work really hard to get out those that they considered important to the ongoing operations and research even if they might not have been more than lightly involved in the Onion- like Zack McBride- than others.

How many people outside of certain individual in the RF and various clandestine operatives has the Aligment left behind on purpose? And how many of the people who were working for Manpower and represent a significant resource in moving goods and people and information will have survived? And survived means also that they were not just liqidated by Alignment operatives.

Will not know till it comes out in plot line.

Houdini itself could cause unrest on Darius. The inhumane manner in which people were spirited away reminds me of the Rapture -- which is also unannounced, sudden, and secretive. Darius better be like Heaven. Talk about a God complex.

And where, in-between Alpha and slave, will these people fit?


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