SLN Future

Sigs wrote:Why would they need them to be in fighting shape? Until October 1921 the SLN was the undisputed single most powerful nation in existence according to the League, its easy to see how one of the core navies remained after the SL was created and at some point it just became a symbol of the core system and its status as a power before the League, how it predates the SLN... It could have ended up after centuries more of a social club than a military, no threats and even if here were threats the SLN is but a call away to help them and no one is stupid enough to go to war with the SL. Some Shell systems further from the Core SLN bases that hold the SD's on the other hand might have actual navies to defend them while the SLN redeploys to face the threat and as such might have actual competent navies even if its only an SD or two.

cthia wrote:FRONTIER SECURITY <> FRONTIER FLEET

Theemile wrote:
Actually, that is kinda the point - there are not that many polities with just 1 Waller. Less the 1% of all the Honorverse naves (~25) can field 8 OR MORE wallers. Somewhere between 1 and 2% (25-50 navies) can field 1-7. In all - there are probably around 200 (maybe fewer) wallers in these navies combined. This includes old BBs, homegown oversized BCs, castoff DNs and SDs.

I doubt many are SDs, and most of these ships will be old, undersized, behind the tech curve, or not maintained properly - simply because anyone who could afford the infrastructure to maintain, update and build new, proper capital ships, would not build just 1 or 2. Anything new is going to be something like an oversized BC - Big, but not built to the same standards as an actual waller, with undersized weapons and non-optimized armoring schemes. Great for terrorizing your CA wielding neighbor, but not a threat against a proper navy.

tlb wrote:Until the GA demonstrated how inferior the Solarian ships were, I would expect anything new to be built to the latest Solarian plans. I do not know what they will do now.

tlb wrote:I accept your numbers, although I do not know specifically who they might be. I also will accept that anyone in the Verge, who is wealthy enough to build warships and cannot reach an accommodation with a polity like Maya or Erewhon or others, does have a need for its own SDF.

But wouldn't it be better to put those grasers in a fleet of LAC's and build a missile heavy defensive fleet similar to Moriarty (if it had been built in a BC body)? A single star system can save money by making most of its fleet sub-light.

Theemile wrote:Unfortunately, when asking David if there was another Manticore in another quadrant of the verge, he told us that the Haven Quadrant is an oddity. The rest of the Verge is made up of mostly 1-3 star polities. Silesia and Haven are the exceptions, not the rule. With the Andermani Empire, Asgerd, Manticore, and now Maya, almost all the large extra-solarian polities are all in the Haven quadrant. Certainly, the #2,3, and 4 navies were all in the Haven Quadrant in 1905.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Some of them might because they know what a navy is and what it's for. Beowulf did and that wasn't a navy built since 1905. Beowulf was building warships for at least 500 years.

Sigs wrote:Why would they need them to be in fighting shape? Until October 1921 the SLN was the undisputed single most powerful nation in existence according to the League, its easy to see how one of the core navies remained after the SL was created and at some point it just became a symbol of the core system and its status as a power before the League, how it predates the SLN... It could have ended up after centuries more of a social club than a military, no threats and even if here were threats the SLN is but a call away to help them and no one is stupid enough to go to war with the SL. Some Shell systems further from the Core SLN bases that hold the SD's on the other hand might have actual navies to defend them while the SLN redeploys to face the threat and as such might have actual competent navies even if its only an SD or two.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

I'm beginning to understand the economics of Honorverse piracy. The pirates use relatively technologically advanced starships to rob their neighbors. I've been struggling to understand how they get the money to buy their ships much less have lucrative markets for black market goods. It isn't as if they are robbing galleons of their Gold on the Spanish main. Slaves should not be that valuable either. What would be valuable enough to make piracy profitable would be advanced technology machine tools being shipped from the core world's.

kzt wrote:

Sigs wrote:Why would they need them to be in fighting shape? Until October 1921 the SLN was the undisputed single most powerful nation in existence according to the League, its easy to see how one of the core navies remained after the SL was created and at some point it just became a symbol of the core system and its status as a power before the League, how it predates the SLN... It could have ended up after centuries more of a social club than a military, no threats and even if here were threats the SLN is but a call away to help them and no one is stupid enough to go to war with the SL. Some Shell systems further from the Core SLN bases that hold the SD's on the other hand might have actual navies to defend them while the SLN redeploys to face the threat and as such might have actual competent navies even if its only an SD or two.

Yup. Most militaries (not just 3rd world - most) are not highly trained fighting machines with ample training time, training fuel and traing ammo. Not to mention go-to war ammo. They are a regime security force and a jobs program. They might shoot once a year. They are much better at close order marching than platoon tactics.

The French and Brish air forces ran out of missiles fighting Libya.

The German army can probably scrape up a pazer company, but I doubt they have a panzer battalion that is considered mission capable. A few years ago they had broomsticks monted on vehicles in a nato exercise because they were out of working machineguns.