Flu & Covid19

Daryl wrote:Saw Trump on TV today looking puzzled when asked what life would be like post Covid-19? He had to think for a moment, then said words to the effect that "In a few months it will be back just as it always was".

There is considerable debate over just how widespread the infection is and therefore how deadly it is.

The official numbers suggest that less than 0.1% of the world population has been infected and that the lethality rate is close to 5%. So far, the plague is trivial. However; the plague might return next year and spreads so that the number of cases is measured in the billions rather than millins. Loosing 5% of the world population to a plkague is ugly, but very survivable if it is a one time only event and most of the victims are elderly who will soon be dying anyway. If the Caronavirus is like the flu and mutates enough to resist antibodies and vaccines, then it might become a recurrent event. Lossing five percent of the population every year for a decade or two will be catastrophic.

There are some random testing studies that suggest that the number of Coronavirus infections are two or three orders of magnitude higher than the official numbers. If so, then the Coronasvirus is no more deadly than the common flu and all of the social distancing and lockdown measures have been ineffective. If this is true, then life will become normal again as soon as governments allow it.

I am an agnostic about the true severity of the Coronvirus. I want to see a lot more random testing with validated tests. It is very possible that President Trump has been briefed on such testing and that these tests confirm that the plague has been massively overhyped. If so, President Trump is confronted by the need to repair the massive economic damage inflicted by the overhype and cope with the political implications. His Coronobvirus advisors (Fauci and Birx) might have been merely wrong. However; given the context of Alsxander Vindman triggering the impeachment efforts and the pandemic counciding with the impreachment, President Trump is compelled to consider the possibility of intentional fraud to discredit him. If this has been the case, people SHOULD be executed for treason.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

Daryl wrote:Saw Trump on TV today looking puzzled when asked what life would be like post Covid-19? He had to think for a moment, then said words to the effect that "In a few months it will be back just as it always was".

There is considerable debate over just how widespread the infection is and therefore how deadly it is.

The official numbers suggest that less than 0.1% of the world population has been infected and that the lethality rate is close to 5%. So far, the plague is trivial.

Keeping in mind that deaths due to Covid are also significantly under reported right now due to undertesting, no it is not "trivial". We're approaching 300,000 dead just in the confirmed tested cases globally. Most of that happening in the last 1-2 months alone. WITH most of the entire planet locked down to slow the spread.

Without that we'd be looking at a death toll in the millions, easily. Already.

It is nowhere near trivial.

There are some random testing studies that suggest that the number of Coronavirus infections are two or three orders of magnitude higher than the official numbers. If so, then the Coronasvirus is no more deadly than the common flu and all of the social distancing and lockdown measures have been ineffective.

Um... NO. Just plain no. That's saying, assuming all those assumptions were true, that it *would* be no more deadly than the flu IF we were dealing with it under the same conditions as the flu. Namely with widespread immunities through either natural antibodies or vaccinations in the population which contain and limit the flu's spread every year even with new strains popping up all the time.

But that is not the reality we are in. We are in a world where there are no natural antibodies, vaccinations, or terribly effective treatments for this virus. Exhibit A, it's killing many times more people that the flu normally does even WITH the whole damn planet locked away to slow it down. If we had been opened up the last 2 months it would have been exponentially worse given how readily it spreads through asymptomatic carriers.

If we get to a place where we have widespread vaccinated immunity against it THEN it could GET to a place where it is somewhat comparable to the flu, but it is not anywhere near that now.

You have an amazing ability to read and then pontificate without ever comprehending.

Presuming that the number of Covidvirus fatalities is a out 300,000, how does that compare to the more than 50 million people who die every year? The number of deaths from Coronavirus is trivial.

You make a number of assertions without citing evidence that we are massively undercounting Coronavirus deaths but apparently not Coronavirus infections. I strongly suspect that we are undercounting both. If we are reasonably accurate in counting deaths but are massively undercounting cases, then the disease is far less lethal. I suspect that you don't understand the math well enough to understand the point.

Regarding,

However; given the context of Alsxander Vindman triggering the impeachment efforts and the pandemic counciding with the impreachment, President Trump is compelled to consider the possibility of intentional fraud to discredit him. If this has been the case, people SHOULD be executed for treason.

That would only be true if the premise of "l'état, c'est moi" held. In that Trump personified the state. Attacking a politician isn't treason. I thought that the conservatives in the US understood that.

Daryl wrote:Regarding,

However; given the context of Alsxander Vindman triggering the impeachment efforts and the pandemic counciding with the impreachment, President Trump is compelled to consider the possibility of intentional fraud to discredit him. If this has been the case, people SHOULD be executed for treason.

That would only be true if the premise of "l'état, c'est moi" held. In that Trump personified the state. Attacking a politician isn't treason. I thought that the conservatives in the US understood that.

Part of the difficulty we are experiencing is that Trump demands personal loyalty to him where the oath that elected and appointed public servants take is to defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. That may not be exact wording, by way of disclaimer. It doesn't seem to occur to Trump and his supporters to make that distinction.

Don

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Daryl wrote:Regarding,

However; given the context of Alsxander Vindman triggering the impeachment efforts and the pandemic counciding with the impreachment, President Trump is compelled to consider the possibility of intentional fraud to discredit him. If this has been the case, people SHOULD be executed for treason.

That would only be true if the premise of "l'état, c'est moi" held. In that Trump personified the state. Attacking a politician isn't treason. I thought that the conservatives in the US understood that.

So you believe that it would be okay for CDC bureaucrats and others to give Trump false information about the Covidvirus so that he will hesitate to impose travel bans until it is to late and not ramp up production of critical supplies? Getting rid of Trump is so vitally important that the resistance should be eager to kill 100,000 Americans to discredit him.? What if the plague gets so far out of control that it kills 1 million Americans or ten million?

If bureaucrats do the wrong thing for whatever reason they should be dealt with appropriately. From discipline, to sackings and in the worst cases jail. Your comment said they should be executed for treason to Trump. In that case may as well adopt China or NK's system.

So it the CDC knowingly giving Trump false information is g4ounds for treason, Trump knowingly giving false information to US citizens is ...?

TFLYTSNBN wrote:
So you believe that it would be okay for CDC bureaucrats and others to give Trump false information about the Covidvirus so that he will hesitate to impose travel bans until it is to late and not ramp up production of critical supplies? Getting rid of Trump is so vitally important that the resistance should be eager to kill 100,000 Americans to discredit him.? What if the plague gets so far out of control that it kills 1 million Americans or ten million?

TFLY, you can often seem to be a well rounded individual with impressive credentials. But when you go into conspiracy mode, my, my...

It is really more likely that the CDC was trying to get through to Trump and were being ignored than they were trying to misinform him.

Trump should be encouraged to accept personal responsibility for the way he carries out his duties rather than hunting for scapegoats and boogeyman.

Don

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Daryl wrote:In that case may as well adopt China or NK's system.

Ironically, it was China's system which has led to the current crisis. The culture of the Chinese Bureaucracy revolves around minimizing/hiding bad news from superiors until it can be dealt with/is no longer important, thus allowing the inevitable report to be presented as a triumph. Unfortunately, this means that problems outside the bureaucrat's ability to deal with tend to go unreported and unsolved until the negative consequences are too big to hide.

To quote Londo Mollari -
"Big concerns grow from small concerns. You plant them, water them with tears, fertilize them with unconcern. If you ignore them, they grow."