Raoul/Katherine Inheritance

tlb wrote:Also a secondary title could be conferred under the wills of Hamish and Honor to give Katherine a title of her own.

On page 2, Erls explains his belief that Manticore's inheritance system doesn't allow for property to be "divided, sold, or bequeathed by the current owner of the property. Instead, the property automatically will transfer, in full, to the next legal heir upon the death of the current owner. This was often done by one who amassed a large amount of property to prevent his heirs from selling it off or trading it away, perhaps giving some to a favored mistress or a well-liked bastard child".

Maybe the Queen could grant her White Haven, but Honor and Hamish will have no power to do it themselves. Either Raoul dies childless or Katherine will have to get her own the hard way.

Dauntless wrote:not sure if he can give up the Steaderholdership, at a guess if he can it would go to his eldest child or Faith, or maybe a theoretical 4th child if Hamish and Honor have more after Emily's 2nd. key factor for Grayson will likely be Harrington blood, so Katherine and the unnamed 3rd child would not be able to be steadholder.

Until and unless Protector Benjamin or his son Protector Bernard Raoul decide to change the laws in Grayson. They'd already slightly tweaked them to make Faith heir to Honor. To me, that was blatant twisting, since why would Faith and James be heirs if Alfred and Allison couldn't be?

Anyway, the point is that group marriages are a thing in Grayson, except that they always were one man to multiple women and tiles only inherited by sons. Since girls can inherit now and Honor's marriage to Emily was approved in the eyes of Grayson law and the Church of Humanity Unchained, there's a distinct possibility that Katherine could be included as Honor's heir.

Honor is likely to live for at least another 30 years, so there's time to change the law.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Why the hell not? Emily and Honor were legally married, so inheritance should go to their children regardless of who bore them.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Indeed. De jure they are Harringtons. Since inheritance is law, that should suffice.

So, if Katherine was born first, all of the Harrington lands/titles would go to her while Honor's biological son is left out?

Does that sound right to you?

Is Ruth in line for the throne? Ahead of other biological Winton's?

If a widower with children remarries a women with children who are older than his own, do they get placed ahead in the line of succession?

tlb wrote:Also a secondary title could be conferred under the wills of Hamish and Honor to give Katherine a title of her own.

MC1560 wrote:On page 2, Erls explains his belief that Manticore's inheritance system doesn't allow for property to be "divided, sold, or bequeathed by the current owner of the property. Instead, the property automatically will transfer, in full, to the next legal heir upon the death of the current owner. This was often done by one who amassed a large amount of property to prevent his heirs from selling it off or trading it away, perhaps giving some to a favored mistress or a well-liked bastard child".

Maybe the Queen could grant her White Haven, but Honor and Hamish will have no power to do it themselves. Either Raoul dies childless or Katherine will have to get her own the hard way.

Neither you nor Erls know that is true in Manticoran law. That talks about entailed property only; we have already seen Honor's will be carried out because she was believed to be dead. Clearly she made a number of bequests then. It is not even strictly true about entailed property in English law:

Another detail of the law was that entails were periodically renewable and even breakable with the consent of an heir who had come of age.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Anyway, the point is that group marriages are a thing in Grayson, except that they always were one man to multiple women and tiles only inherited by sons. Since girls can inherit now and Honor's marriage to Emily was approved in the eyes of Grayson law and the Church of Humanity Unchained, there's a distinct possibility that Katherine could be included as Honor's heir.

As far as we knew, the children of these marriages were all biological children.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Why the hell not? Emily and Honor were legally married, so inheritance should go to their children regardless of who bore them.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Indeed. De jure they are Harringtons. Since inheritance is law, that should suffice.

MC1560 wrote:So, if Katherine was born first, all of the Harrington lands/titles would go to her while Honor's biological son is left out?

Does that sound right to you?

Is Ruth in line for the throne? Ahead of other biological Winton's?

If a widower with children remarries a women with children who are older than his own, do they get placed ahead in the line of succession?

The case of a widower remarried has nothing to do with a joint or group marriage. The case of Ruth also has nothing to do with this case. We simply do not have the text of the inheritance law so all arguments are tentative until RFC publishes a comment.

To repeat it is entirely possible that if Katherine had been born first then she could inherit everything.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Anyway, the point is that group marriages are a thing in Grayson, except that they always were one man to multiple women and tiles only inherited by sons. Since girls can inherit now and Honor's marriage to Emily was approved in the eyes of Grayson law and the Church of Humanity Unchained, there's a distinct possibility that Katherine could be included as Honor's heir.

MC1560 wrote:As far as we knew, the children of these marriages were all biological children.

All children are biological, so what are you trying to say?

Yes they are all the children of the single man in the union. But are the children joint children of all wives or are they tied only to their birth mother?

tlb wrote:The case of a widower remarried has nothing to do with a joint or group marriage.

If Katherine can be Honor's heir due to marriage, why can't the father's stepchildren be his heirs due to marriage?

tlb wrote:The case of a widower remarried has nothing to do with a joint or group marriage.

MC1560 wrote:If Katherine can be Honor's heir due to marriage, why can't the father's stepchildren be his heirs due to marriage?

Doesn't he have to adopt them to make his heirs? The case of Katherine is different because she was born within the bonds of the group marriage; preexisting children brought into their mother's marriage do not get all the benefits - certainly that is true of Ruth.

tlb wrote:

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Anyway, the point is that group marriages are a thing in Grayson, except that they always were one man to multiple women and tiles only inherited by sons. Since girls can inherit now and Honor's marriage to Emily was approved in the eyes of Grayson law and the Church of Humanity Unchained, there's a distinct possibility that Katherine could be included as Honor's heir.

MC1560 wrote:As far as we knew, the children of these marriages were all biological children.

All children are biological, so what are you trying to say?

Yes they are all the children of the single man in the union. But are the children joint children of all wives or are they tied only to their birth mother?

Until the recent inheritance change, it didn't matter which mother had the child, since all inheritance went through the father. All the children in a family had the same father so all could inherit from him independent of which wife (or mistress, on occasion) had given birth to the child. There has never been a case on Grayson where a child stood to inherit through their mother so the problem has never come up. Now that it can, they have some tough choices to make.

All of that ignores the potential of the wife cheating, of course, but that's a whole 'nother bag of worms best left unopened.