Time to read THE LAST CENTURION?

cthia wrote:Yet another facet of chaos caused by illegal aliens in this country.

And, let's get something straight. They are "illegal" first. "Undocumented" second. It is illegal for companies to knowingly hire illegals. If they do, there are repercussions across the board that I spoke of in previous posts.

Why can't they go through the system the right way, so innocent hard working Americans and companies don't get screwed in holes they didn't even know existed. Is it too much to ask?

What I am trying to say is that you have to deal with the situation as it is, and not some vision of what it should be if only some policy or actions had been different in the past.

For example, it was/is clear that HIV spread rapidly in the male gay community first because of some extremely promiscuous practices. That was something that I personally think to be wrong. However just stating that over and over did nothing to help contain the outbreak.

Instead, in the UK, the govt chose to treat it as a medical health issue, with sensible guidance, and practical policies to help people get free treatment rather then being gays being shunned, pilloried or persecuted.

Interestingly this was under a Tory gov, so I wouldn't normally sing their praises! The Health Secretary, Norman Fowler, pushed this thru, as a pragmatic measure, despite a measure of opposition from the PM Margaret Thatcher.

As a result it was brought under control in the UK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_in_the_United_Kingdom
&
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS:_Don%27t_Die_of_Ignorance

CTHIA, I was disappointed in your posts because I expect better of you.

The system as it stands is harder on the undocumented immigrants than anyone else. Saying "if they would only go home, get in line and wait their turn" provides no help at all in dealing with the matter. After all they are not going to do that. So if are going to solve anything we are going to have to deal with what we actually have on hand.

I think that there is a bipartisan solution out there if the politicians can work up the nerve to embrace it. On the one hand make the borders as secure as possible. On the other hand let's bring the undocumented who are here out of the shadows and start issuing green cards, social security numbers and set things up so they are paying income taxes.

Most of these folk, contrary to the belief of some, are hard workers who are already contributing positively to society. For them It's time to open the door so they can get out of the cold.

By the way, with that trip to the emergency room, it was a mix ethnically. Whites as well as darker skinned people. And since we have so many native American people in this area, Dakota Sioux, it can be hard to distinguish between them and Hispanic people.

Don

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Don

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Annachie wrote:The thing is, the covid-19 could be man made.

There are labs all over the world studying viruses like that trying to stay ahead of the mutations for immunization purposes.

There are labs weaponizing them, sorry learning to defend against someone else weaponizing them.

There's supposedly a lab that could fit one of those two descriptions near Wuhan.

So yes, it could be a man made virus that escaped. It doesn't really change anything though.


The Australian minister for what is effectively Homeland Security was in the USA last week. Returned back to Australia and didn't bother to self-quarantine. He's now in hospital with it, after meeting with the entire head of the Australian federal government, and the heads of the public service etc.
The guy in charge of quarantining people didn't quarantine himself and it's 50/50 as to the government getting sick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCQGQ5qBQTA

I have no qualification to comment on the weaponization of viruses, although it is not difficult to imagine it so. So I won't comment on that.

But I do object to the way this discussion played out. You guys basicly conjectured on the probability of an idea you come up with. Then you started treating the idea as fact. Then you started looking around for who to blame for it. That has no relationship to the facts as we actually know them. Therein lies the route to la-la land. That's crazy! Conspiracy city! With this kind of thinking, no wonder we are in trouble.

Don

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Annachie wrote:The thing is, the covid-19 could be man made.

There are labs all over the world studying viruses like that trying to stay ahead of the mutations for immunization purposes.

There are labs weaponizing them, sorry learning to defend against someone else weaponizing them.

There's supposedly a lab that could fit one of those two descriptions near Wuhan.

So yes, it could be a man made virus that escaped. It doesn't really change anything though.


The Australian minister for what is effectively Homeland Security was in the USA last week. Returned back to Australia and didn't bother to self-quarantine. He's now in hospital with it, after meeting with the entire head of the Australian federal government, and the heads of the public service etc.
The guy in charge of quarantining people didn't quarantine himself and it's 50/50 as to the government getting sick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCQGQ5qBQTA

The Australian equivalent of Secretary of Homeland Security not quarantining himself is ironic. Given the fact that it is now Fall going into Winter down South, Australia is becoming a prime habitat for the virus. A disruption of your government would be unhelpful. Iran's government is being hammered.

I subscribe to the two strain theory. I dont believe that the Chinese intentionally released the deadlier strain. I believe that was an accident. The rapid response with a massive quarantine leaves no doubt that the government was horrified. I also suspect that the Chinese released the less lethal strain intentionally as an innocullent. They would not have the less lethal strain if they hadnt developed the more lethal strain. The only plausible explaination was biowarfare research. The fact that China has prefabricated hospitals in stock further incriminates them.

Dilandru's opinion that this pandemic will elevate China's status is absurd. It appears that China created this virus. It is indisputable that China attempted to conceal the epidemic which enabled it to become a pandemic. China will not only become a moral pariah just as occurred after the Tianamen Square massacre, China has proven that it is an unreliable source for manufactured products. I predict that China will implode just like the Soviet Union.

Our government minister is now quarantined. However just before he was tested he spent hours in a cabinet room with all our senior ministers who have opted to not quarantine themselves. Does have its funny side. He may have done for the Trump dynasty as well.

In regard to cthia, I generally agree with you on many topics. The reason I robustly responded was that I wished to illustrate how even you have a US outlook conditoned from growing up in your world, as I suppose we all do.
In regard to unofficial people in society I tend to see their journey as a long and difficult selection interview. If they have managed to get in, then support themselves without help from the state, they may well make good citizens.

Actually Fly China learned when they screwed up the SARS(?) outbreak a bunch of years ago.
Their response to covid-19 was already in their displan.

Annachie wrote:Actually Fly China learned when they screwed up the SARS(?) outbreak a bunch of years ago.
Their response to covid-19 was already in their displan.

Yep. They clearly learned on their past mistakes. They may suffered in economical therms, but also demonstrated, that they could handle very complex problems with speed and precision.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:I subscribe to the two strain theory.

It's not a theory. There are two strains, one that is more infectious but more mild (on the COVID-19 scale of mild, that is) and one that is less infectious but more severe.

Note that the differences are marginal. There is no clear-cut evidence that one is a bioweapon and the other is not.

I dont believe that the Chinese intentionally released the deadlier strain. I believe that was an accident. The rapid response with a massive quarantine leaves no doubt that the government was horrified. I also suspect that the Chinese released the less lethal strain intentionally as an innocullent. They would not have the less lethal strain if they hadnt developed the more lethal strain. The only plausible explaination was biowarfare research. The fact that China has prefabricated hospitals in stock further incriminates them.

Funny how a government doing good preparatory work for a pandemic after surviving one is, in your mind, evidence of them making and deploying bioweapons against their own population.

Dilandru's opinion that this pandemic will elevate China's status is absurd. It appears that China created this virus. It is indisputable that China attempted to conceal the epidemic which enabled it to become a pandemic. China will not only become a moral pariah just as occurred after the Tianamen Square massacre, China has proven that it is an unreliable source for manufactured products. I predict that China will implode just like the Soviet Union.

I will predict that the moon will explode in a shower of ice cream and cheese.

My prediction is much more realistic than yours.

USA is more likely to implode than China.

I don't want to seem to be continually attacking the US so hesitated, but a news article I have just read seems germane to this discussion.
Despite the corona virus they will not be shutting the schools in New York. Why? Apparently the schools are the only source of food for the poorest children. There are 110,000 that are completely homeless alone, apart from those whose parents are just too poor to feed them.
If this is true, it really is an indictment on the system. Going back a couple of decades. our PM was caught ad libbing in a speech. He was supposed to say "After this initiative, no Australian child will need to live in poverty", but actually said "After this initiative, no Australian child will live in poverty". Considering how some parents are that was obviously untrue.
However it does appear that many US children in the richest city on earth, are indeed living in poverty.