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What if :if certain characters had survived

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What if :if certain characters had survived
Post by Grayhicks   » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:41 am

Grayhicks
Midshipman

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Hi, this my first time posting on here, but I have loved the series for about a decade now, and I felt is was time.

So, at several points in the plot, we deaths of certain prominent figures, and I have to wonder how things might have been different if they had lived.

First question: if Harrald had lived past Darcos Sound. How might things have been different? Would Charis still seek alliance and union with Chisholm, and Caleb still marry Sharlyen? Charis was going to be facing the exact same global political issues, regardless if Harrald had lived or died, following the Battle of Darcos Sound.

Second Question: If the Wyslynn brothers, or even just one of them, had managed to get out of the Temple and away from Zion during Clyntahn's purge of the Vicarate. Would that one, or both of them, served as the rallying point for the Temple Reformist, as Cahnyr had? Would they have gone on to Tellesberg to unite with Paityr? How would they have approached or interacted with Maikel?
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Re: What if :if certain characters had survived
Post by Dilandu   » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:19 am

Dilandu
Admiral

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Location: Russia

It would be... more problematic with Chisholm. There are serious difference for Sharlyen - as a reigning queen - to marry another monarch or merely a heir to the throne. As long as Harahld is alive, she would merely be a heir's wife; far from the co-ruler solution.

So, while Chisholm would probaby seek some kind of accomodation with Charis anyway, there would be no unification - at least not on such coridal therms.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: What if :if certain characters had survived
Post by Grayhicks   » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:12 am

Grayhicks
Midshipman

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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:51 pm

I wonder then if Harrald might abdicate in favor of Caleb, and just sort of retire to an advisory position. I can certainly see him spending much of his free time, of which there would be a greater deal, sipping fine spirits with Maikel and Regis, while letting Caleb do all the hardwork.
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Re: What if :if certain characters had survived
Post by Dilandu   » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:24 am

Dilandu
Admiral

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Grayhicks wrote:I wonder then if Harrald might abdicate in favor of Caleb, and just sort of retire to an advisory position. I can certainly see him spending much of his free time, of which there would be a greater deal, sipping fine spirits with Maikel and Regis, while letting Caleb do all the hardwork.


It would make little sense from internal point of view. Any large-scale political changes in time of war would only cause more troubles, and fuel the flame of doubts: why the king abdicated? Maybe he have second thoughts about all this? Maybe Cayleb and his Seiji forced him? Charis could hardly allow itself to have a dynastical dissent in addition to the religious one.

And let's not forget, Cayleb wasn't even in Brotherhood yet.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: What if :if certain characters had survived
Post by phillies   » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:12 pm

phillies
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Dilandu wrote:
Grayhicks wrote:I wonder then if Harrald might abdicate in favor of Caleb, and just sort of retire to an advisory position. I can certainly see him spending much of his free time, of which there would be a greater deal, sipping fine spirits with Maikel and Regis, while letting Caleb do all the hardwork.


It would make little sense from internal point of view. Any large-scale political changes in time of war would only cause more troubles, and fuel the flame of doubts: why the king abdicated? Maybe he have second thoughts about all this? Maybe Cayleb and his Seiji forced him? Charis could hardly allow itself to have a dynastical dissent in addition to the religious one.

And let's not forget, Cayleb wasn't even in Brotherhood yet.


Thank you for the lyrics.
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Re: What if :if certain characters had survived
Post by SilverbladeTE   » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:05 am

SilverbladeTE
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:14 am

phillies wrote:
Thank you for the lyrics.


hehe gotta agree, classic! ;)

though my fave is the British "alternate" version of Colonel Bogey....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPeM0BGGt80
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Re: What if :if certain characters had survived
Post by Dilandu   » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:15 pm

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2541
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

You are welcome)
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: What if :if certain characters had survived
Post by Julia Minor   » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:16 pm

Julia Minor
Commander

Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:58 pm

If Haarahld had survived Darcos Sound, even if he died of his wounds a few months later, there would have been time for him to have that little talk with Merlin. At which point we would have found out whether a PICA's jaw can bounce off the floor ;) .

It's possible that Haarahld would have sent Cayleb to Chisholm for Round Two of "negotiating an alliance". He and Sharleyan would still have fallen head over heels for each other, but Dilandu has a good point about the politics involved with an heir marrying a ruling monarch. Best case, and only if the healers are expecting Haarahld's battle injuries to finish him off soon, would be an agreement that once Haarahld dies C&S marry and unite the crowns.

On question 2, if either Wylsynn brother had managed to escape Zion we would have seen the most impressive manhunt in Safehold's history. He/They would have had to flee to Tellesburg as the only remotely safe place to be. I could see Samyl and Maikel getting along well, though we don't see enough of Samyl to even guess whether he could have coped with the truth about the CoGA.

For that matter, would Paityr ever have become part of the Inner Circle if his father and/or uncle had survived? A major part of the stresses that sent him to Saint Zherneau's was their deaths.
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Re: What if :if certain characters had survived
Post by Salisria   » Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:50 am

Salisria
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:08 am

As for question 2, even if the Wylsynns could have escaped Zion, they wouldn't have. Samyl would never have abandoned his fellow members of the Circle and Hauwerd would never have abandoned Samyl. Their survival, even if only temporarily, would require that reformist Circle not be betrayed.
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