UC: TUFT capacities

Theemile wrote:SLN missiles are still Plasma Capacitor missiles, like KZT said. Before the microfusion reactors, all missiles used plasma capacitors for power. Capacitor missiles took on plasma in the magazines of a ship before they are fired. ( They can also be drained, so many missiles are spun up before use). In RMN and RHN service, tractors could also beam energy (perhaps a second emittor was used) to power the systems in pods and fill up the plasma capacitors before podnaughts were on the scene

Think of capacitor missiles like steam torpedos. You need a source of live steam or a pressurized flask of steam to fill the internal flask of the torpedo, so the torpedo can operate. The flask cannot sit for lengthy periods or it loses pressure as the steam cools.

So their has to be some mechanism to spin up the pods with plasma for use - and it needs to be done "soon" before use.

But don't the pods themselves serve that function, provided they have power? Would it be possible for the freighters to throw the pods off board, then the firing warships to transmit sufficient power to them for them to charge the missiles, like tlb said?

I am not at all sure that beam power can power up pods. It requires a lot of power. David seems to have decided that all the major weapons depend of getting reactor plasma injected into ot, including the energy weapon mounts. Only (comparitively) light stuff like the PDLCs seems to run on electricity.

And steam torpedoes don’t store steam. They store compressed air (or oxygen for the IJN) and produce steam as fuel and water are injected into the gas heading for the turbine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo#Wet-heater

kzt wrote:I am not at all sure that beam power can power up pods. It requires a lot of power. David seems to have decided that all the major weapons depend of getting reactor plasma injected into ot, including the energy weapon mounts. Only (comparitively) light stuff like the PDLCs seems to run on electricity.

Ok, but we know an SD(P) can power up a pod very quickly, as it can eject 4 every 15 seconds. I don't suppose the ship needs half an hour pre-powering up pods when it finds itself in combat situations and I don't suppose it keeps some in ready state for firing.

Anyway, could the SLN have brought a portable pod power-up unit in those freighters too? Yesterday, when I was boarding my flight in a small airport, I noticed a tractor pulling a pod that looked like a jet ski and had the markings "28V GPU". I imagine that was a Ground Power Unit, which is used to kick-start the plane's APU, which in turn is used to start the engines. Could there be something similar for pods carried by non-dedicated freighters?

kzt wrote:I am not at all sure that beam power can power up pods. It requires a lot of power. David seems to have decided that all the major weapons depend of getting reactor plasma injected into ot, including the energy weapon mounts. Only (comparitively) light stuff like the PDLCs seems to run on electricity.

I'm pretty sure the pods have to be spun up before launch and the beam power is simply maintenance to keep that charge viable for extended periods of time (IIRC the pods Smoking Frog used at Torch could only last a minute or two between spin up, launch, and firing).

I've been tinkering with how such things could be done en masse to facilitate a new type of ship. Rather than deploying thousands of long-term system defense pods individually, a ship holds them layered 3-4 deep on a very tiny central spar between the impeller rings. At need the ship cranks its reactors to max, spins up all the pods over a minute or two, then gently pops pods in all directions like a slow-mo flak burst. Obviously the ship would have a minimal crew who would then take the bare hull out of harms way or simply bail out into a pinnace to run for cover.

The theory being that pre-deployed pods do occasionally need servicing and this gives the crew easy access to the pods at all times as well as not leaving the pods to have their systems degraded by long term independent deployment. Maybe even include a blow-off external "hull" to provide extra shielding during transit and long passive waits while deployed. It would also allow for easily relocating pre-deployed pods if you have reason to change the most likely vector needing defense.

Each ship would be roughly Agamemnon-sized and carry enough pods to reload an Invictus, suggesting a more offensive use for them as well (although they'd be defenseless and incapable of controlling the missiles themselves, and almost certainly an expendable asset once the pods are launched).

Once you put a SD(p) class set of sensors and fire control on a ship it’s ‘expensive’, even if the rest of the ship is free. Which it isn’t. Given that the pod core of an SD(p) cost more than the entire hull I’m not sure this is a valid economy.

kzt wrote:Once you put a SD(p) class set of sensors and fire control on a ship it’s ‘expensive’, even if the rest of the ship is free. Which it isn’t. Given that the pod core of an SD(p) cost more than the entire hull I’m not sure this is a valid economy.

This is solely a transport, storage, and deployment solution. I very specifically said they'd be defenseless and unable to control the missiles themselves.

In many ways it would be comparable to the ammunition ships Manticore already uses to ship pods from the assembly lines to the end users, so if any comparisons are being done that should be the baseline.

--snipping--

Galactic Sapper wrote:This is solely a transport, storage, and deployment solution. I very specifically said they'd be defenseless and unable to control the missiles themselves.

In many ways it would be comparable to the ammunition ships Manticore already uses to ship pods from the assembly lines to the end users, so if any comparisons are being done that should be the baseline.

The FSVs fill this capacity well enough that a couple of SAG-Cs and an FSV can effectively outfight an SLN task force for quite some time if said task force chooses to stand and fight. If there had been ONE FSV in Hypatia, they never would have closed to SLN missile range at all.

Then again, other than Hypatia, I am beginning to dislike the actions and capabilities announced as available to the SLN in UH about as much as KZT dislikes AAC, specifically because of the TUFTs.

Given that in theory the SLN has only recently begun acknowledging the need for their own pods, and Filereta in theory did not have SD(P)s, suddenly the TUFTs can not only carry immense amounts of missiles, they have the ability to launch waves of newly developed systems (the Huskies and eventually presumably the Hastas) under battle conditions... having just barely been called back into action.

AKA we know that Technodyne's research arm has been making weapons for the MAlign for a while... but we're talking about Solarian merchant ships suddenly acting as pod-dispensing ships without the time to complete the conversion or any text-ev that such things were ever under earlier consideration in time for the SLN admirals to know how to use the dang things.

Then again, the SLN admirals deploying and launching off single uncontrollable monster salvo(s) doesn't hold water if said admirals are at least as clued in by the weapons providers as to capabilities and "how to use these" as those in Prime/Ajay space. For that matter, why didn't Hadju Gyozo have Huskies if that is the new thing for the TUFTs to deploy?

SharkHunter wrote:Given that in theory the SLN has only recently begun acknowledging the need for their own pods, and Filereta in theory did not have SD(P)s, suddenly the TUFTs can not only carry immense amounts of missiles, they have the ability to launch waves of newly developed systems (the Huskies and eventually presumably the Hastas) under battle conditions... having just barely been called back into action.

Wait, battle conditions? The freighters at Hypatia had days to unload 120,000 pods (or was it 120,000 missiles?). Adm Hajdu's task force arrived before the plebiscite and then waited a while after it for the evacuations.

I'm drawing a blank now at the sequence of events at Prime/Ajay, but the confrontation was again over ten hours, very long range.

SharkHunter wrote:The FSVs fill this capacity well enough that a couple of SAG-Cs and an FSV can effectively outfight an SLN task force for quite some time if said task force chooses to stand and fight. If there had been ONE FSV in Hypatia, they never would have closed to SLN missile range at all.

A FSV fills the transport role well enough for now, against an opponent that is so severely outmatched. In 5-10 years that situation will have changed. And with respect, a FSV does not fill the long term deployment role well at all, which is the primary purpose of the proposed ship.

Then again, other than Hypatia, I am beginning to dislike the actions and capabilities announced as available to the SLN in UH about as much as KZT dislikes AAC, specifically because of the TUFTs.

Given that in theory the SLN has only recently begun acknowledging the need for their own pods, and Filereta in theory did not have SD(P)s, suddenly the TUFTs can not only carry immense amounts of missiles, they have the ability to launch waves of newly developed systems (the Huskies and eventually presumably the Hastas) under battle conditions... having just barely been called back into action.

AKA we know that Technodyne's research arm has been making weapons for the MAlign for a while... but we're talking about Solarian merchant ships suddenly acting as pod-dispensing ships without the time to complete the conversion or any text-ev that such things were ever under earlier consideration in time for the SLN admirals to know how to use the dang things.

Then again, the SLN admirals deploying and launching off single uncontrollable monster salvo(s) doesn't hold water if said admirals are at least as clued in by the weapons providers as to capabilities and "how to use these" as those in Prime/Ajay space. For that matter, why didn't Hadju Gyozo have Huskies if that is the new thing for the TUFTs to deploy?

I'm assuming the lack of wormhole access is severely limiting the ability for the SLN to share designs and tactics across the massive distances involved. What we're seeing is some intentional design information being shared (Cataphracts and pods, mostly) but tactics and even ad hoc equipment being created by the local establishment. It would take even a dispatch boat months to get across the Solarian League and the war is happening faster than their internal communications can handle.

(And as an aside, the time limit given for SLN ships to vacate fringe systems was poorly thought out, given that transit times even using wormholes meant most systems could not even receive word they were supposed to vacate before they were in violation of the surrender conditions and subject to summary 'sploding. Take the wormholes out of the picture and some ships would be in violation for the better part of a year before they got word.)

Theemile wrote:

ThinksMarkedly wrote:quote="kzt"]David has said multiple times that the only way to start up the reactors on modern RMN pods is to feed it plasma from the ship's reactors.

Old school pods also need that, the capacitors are plasma capacitors.

So no, they are not standard freighters.

But those aren't RMN pods. They are SLN ones, full of Cataphract missiles, not RMN mini-fusion power ones. They had capacitors to power themselves.

How they were initially powered and how long that charge would last is unknown.

SLN missiles are still Plasma Capacitor missiles, like KZT said. Before the microfusion reactors, all missiles used plasma capacitors for power. Capacitor missiles took on plasma in the magazines of a ship before they are fired. ( They can also be drained, so many missiles are spun up before use). In RMN and RHN service, tractors could also beam energy (perhaps a second emittor was used) to power the systems in pods and fill up the plasma capacitors before podnaughts were on the scene

Think of capacitor missiles like steam torpedos. You need a source of live steam or a pressurized flask of steam to fill the internal flask of the torpedo, so the torpedo can operate. The flask cannot sit for lengthy periods or it loses pressure as the steam cools.

So their has to be some mechanism to spin up the pods with plasma for use - and it needs to be done "soon" before use.[/quote]
Steam powered torpedoes are not charged with ate from the firing platform. They used alcohol-oxygen to heat water at extremely high pressure to feed a steam turbine.