Honor/Hamish/Emily

cthia wrote:I often wonder how intimate Honor and Emily were. How much "exercise" did that aspect of the marriage get? In the end, did Honor and Emily fall in love?

Courtesans, eh? Is that what they're called in the Honorverse?

Seeing as Emily couldn't feel anything, there probably wasn't any physical intimacy. I also don't see the three of them sharing the same room. I imagine Honor and Hamish probably shared a room and Emily was left in a room by herself.

MC1560 wrote:Anyone else hate this relationship?
It's terrible what happens to Emily during it.

Honor cheats with her husband, invades her marriage and when Emily dies, takes her husband and children for herself. Her kids even get Honor's last name instead of their mother's.

Sixty years of marriage and no heir. But along comes Honor and suddenly there is one. Honor's son is first in line, Emily's daughter ends up second place.

Honor and Raoul basically usurp and erase Emily and Katherine's place in the family.

Seriously, what the hell?

There where no cheating going on.

Also, what you are describing is from an outsiders indignant viewpoint that disregard everything Emily felt.

There have always been menage a trois. Different strokes for different folks. The Graysons had many variations. You could even point out the married man with a mistress, that the wife knew about as a variation.
I suspect that as many on here are from the US there is an element of Christian prudery involved in some reactions. Whereas a heathen like me sees no wrong.

Daryl wrote:There have always been menage a trois. Different strokes for different folks. The Graysons had many variations. You could even point out the married man with a mistress, that the wife knew about as a variation.
I suspect that as many on here are from the US there is an element of Christian prudery involved in some reactions. Whereas a heathen like me sees no wrong.

Leave it up to the heathens. LOL

I don't think you should be so hard on yourself in this case, whether you are from the US or not. Remember, even in the US we have our Mormons and Amish.

There's nothing wrong with that kind of a marriage if all parties went into it with their eyes open, beforehand. That isn't the case here. Emily entered into a traditional marriage with Hamish "For better or for worse." He doesn't get to cheat simply because he gets horny.

By the time Emily finds out, the options she's faced with is to either completely destroy both of their reputations, because the newsies are out for blood, or she has to stand by her man. I think it came down to Emily's own immense love for Hamish. Knowing she could no longer give him any physical affection or any of what the other half of a marriage needs. Especially a man. Plus, she may not have felt she could fight against the pride of the fleet, from a wheelchair. Honor had matured into a hot vixen of a Sphinxian piece of cat with legs long enough to make a blind man see and a married man cheat, by then.

I give Honor credit for trying to avoid Hamish. But in the end, she gets no free pass simply because she knew, and could actually feel, the extent of Hamish's true feelings. It must be nice to have that kind of inside information, but being an empath doesn't corner the market on that either. We have all had others who we knew, without a doubt, were madly in love with us, without being an empath.

When I first read the books, I saw immediately that they could get married together on Grayson (which solved all the problems) and thought that there must be legal reasons (such as a bigamy law) on Manticore to prevent them from being together there. So when it turned out that the only impediment was that Emily and Hamish needed to rewrite their wedding vows, I did not understand why we were forced to go through so much agony in the books.

The point about being an empath is that when forced to be together, Honor is a hostage to his feelings, making this a Stockholm Syndrome situation. Since she was already drawn to older men, the result was irresistible.

cthia wrote:..snip..
I give Honor credit for trying to avoid Hamish. But in the end, she gets no free pass simply because she knew, and could actually feel, the extent of Hamish's true feelings. It must be nice to have that kind of inside information, but being an empath doesn't corner the market on that either. We have all had others who we knew, without a doubt, were madly in love with us, without being an empath.

What free pass?

cthia wrote:I often wonder how intimate Honor and Emily were. How much "exercise" did that aspect of the marriage get? In the end, did Honor and Emily fall in love?

Courtesans, eh? Is that what they're called in the Honorverse?

This reminds me of one of the questions in a quiz from the book REAL MEN DON'T EAT QUICHE.

Your wife informs you that she is leaving you for another woman. What do you do?
A. Nuke her.
B. Send out for quiche.
C. Ask if you can watch.


I would remind readers that Emily's mouth and tongue functional.

I recall that a certain NAMELESSFLY was viciously excoriated for observing that Theodosa Kuzac is a slut.

I suggest that those complaining that Emily was cheated on go back and reread the books -= with their eyes open this time. H&H don't sleep together UNTIL AFTER Emily throws them together and encourages it - hardly the act of a cheated upon wife. It was by all accounts provided by the author (not speculation of fans) a completely consensual relationship among all parties.

cthia wrote:Leave it up to the heathens. LOL

I don't think you should be so hard on yourself in this case, whether you are from the US or not. Remember, even in the US we have our Mormons and Amish.

There's nothing wrong with that kind of a marriage if all parties went into it with their eyes open, beforehand. That isn't the case here. Emily entered into a traditional marriage with Hamish "For better or for worse." He doesn't get to cheat simply because he gets horny.

By the time Emily finds out, the options she's faced with is to either completely destroy both of their reputations, because the newsies are out for blood, or she has to stand by her man. I think it came down to Emily's own immense love for Hamish. Knowing she could no longer give him any physical affection or any of what the other half of a marriage needs. Especially a man. Plus, she may not have felt she could fight against the pride of the fleet, from a wheelchair. Honor had matured into a hot vixen of a Sphinxian piece of cat with legs long enough to make a blind man see and a married man cheat, by then.

I give Honor credit for trying to avoid Hamish. But in the end, she gets no free pass simply because she knew, and could actually feel, the extent of Hamish's true feelings. It must be nice to have that kind of inside information, but being an empath doesn't corner the market on that either. We have all had others who we knew, without a doubt, were madly in love with us, without being an empath.

What makes this relationship feel wrong for me is Emily's disability. It's like no matter what they say, it still feels like they are taking advantage of her.

She probably spent decades suffering her husband's infidelities and her own powerlessness. She probably became resigned to it. So when faced with Honor, what hope did she have? She waved the white flag and became the secondary wife.

If not for the accident, would she have fought back? Shamed him? Divorced him and found somebody else?

How does her daughter look at a photo of the three of them not think her mother looks like the third wheel of relationship?

cthia wrote:Remember, even in the US we have our Mormons and Amish.

Mormons and Amish? What a weird juxtaposition - what does one have to do with the other?