The US just assassinated...

n7axw wrote:That they won't openly go to war with us doesn't mean they can't make it more difficult for us to protect our people and our interests in the region. Nor does it mean that they can't arrange unpleasantness at home. The question isn't whether or not the man deserved what he got. It's about if the consequences are worth it.

They are already doing everything they dare. If we don't keep smacking them down, they will dare more and more, until we do smack them down. They are our enemies, by their choice, and we have to go on treating them as such. They take appeasement and concessions for weakness, emboldening them to commit more and greater atrocities.
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It takes two to make peace. It only takes one to make war.

Imaginos1892 wrote:

n7axw wrote:That they won't openly go to war with us doesn't mean they can't make it more difficult for us to protect our people and our interests in the region. Nor does it mean that they can't arrange unpleasantness at home. The question isn't whether or not the man deserved what he got. It's about if the consequences are worth it.

They are already doing everything they dare. If we don't keep smacking them down, they will dare more and more, until we do smack them down. They are our enemies, by their choice, and we have to go on treating them as such. They take appeasement and concessions for weakness, emboldening them to commit more and greater atrocities.
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It takes two to make peace. It only takes one to make war.

Did you ever hear of the game "eternal whack a mole?" Note how the rhetoric is heating up. Never believe that Iran "is so afraid of us that they won't try any thing." There are all sorts of ways for Iran to produce new moles for us to whack. There is no end to it. Should either side carry out its threats, we would have another full fledged war over there. Whee... just what we need, another twenty year war...

Don

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Whereas if you stop whacking the moles they proliferate unchecked, until they turn your yard, your garden, and your fields into a desolate wasteland.

They will only see lack of reprisals as weakness to be exploited.
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Wing: ”Have you ever heard the phrase, 'Living well is the best revenge'?"
Miles: “Where I come from, someone's head in a bag is generally considered the best revenge."

It's funny how myopic some people are. These people think of Iran and Iraq as homogeneous countries where every citizen strives after the same thing. They do not, unless you give them a reason to do so.

Compare to what happened in the USA after 9/11, do you think anyone in Iran and Iraq (moderates for example) isn't going to toe to the narrative of "getting even" by any means?

Joat42 wrote:These people think of Iran and Iraq as homogeneous countries where every citizen strives after the same thing.

Of course not. The tyrants ruling Iran are our enemies, and the moles we whack are their lackeys. We try to go after the biggest ones, too, like Soleimani. The ones most obviously NOT innocent citizens. That most of them are guilty of offenses against their own people is just a bonus.
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“Gentlemen! You can't fight in here — this is the War Room!”

Imaginos1892 wrote:

Joat42 wrote:These people think of Iran and Iraq as homogeneous countries where every citizen strives after the same thing.

Of course not. The tyrants ruling Iran are our enemies, and the moles we whack are their lackeys. We try to go after the biggest ones, too, like Soleimani. The ones most obviously NOT innocent citizens. That most of them are guilty of offenses against their own people is just a bonus.

And you totally missed the point. If you are going to punish someone, do it right - not this half-assed thing that was a slap in the face of everyone in the area, because even people on the side-lines are going to turn against the USA because of it.

This also means that any country that thinks USA's unilateral military actions (overt and covert) in other countries are acts of terrorism now can use the same justification to kill US military leaders when they see fit.

No, you missed the point. They are already trying to do all of that. Or are you saying we should declare war?

They are bullies. They murder the weak and innocent. You deal with bullies by kicking them in the nuts. Repeatedly.

Attacking our embassy was a clear act of terrorism, and also an act of war if the Iranian government was behind it. If they did not sanction the attack, we did them a favor by eliminating a rogue operative.
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“Don’t open that!! It’s the original can of worms!”

Imaginos1892 wrote:No, you missed the point. They are already trying to do all of that. Or are you saying we should declare war?

They are bullies. They murder the weak and innocent. You deal with bullies by kicking them in the nuts. Repeatedly.

Attacking our embassy was a clear act of terrorism, and also an act of war if the Iranian government was behind it. If they did not sanction the attack, we did them a favor by eliminating a rogue operative.
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“Don’t open that!! It’s the original can of worms!”

My point with my use of the whack a mole imagery is to point out that the cycle of violence is eternal. And in a part of the world where this was already true. We've been sucked in. I don't know how we escape. I'm pretty sure that more of the same doesn't feed the bulldog. But then, I've already admitted that I'm not wise enough to figure it out.

Don

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n7axw wrote:

Imaginos1892 wrote:No, you missed the point. They are already trying to do all of that. Or are you saying we should declare war?

They are bullies. They murder the weak and innocent. You deal with bullies by kicking them in the nuts. Repeatedly.

Attacking our embassy was a clear act of terrorism, and also an act of war if the Iranian government was behind it. If they did not sanction the attack, we did them a favor by eliminating a rogue operative.
———————————
“Don’t open that!! It’s the original can of worms!”

My point with my use of the whack a mole imagery is to point out that the cycle of violence is eternal. And in a part of the world where this was already true. We've been sucked in. I don't know how we escape. I'm pretty sure that more of the same doesn't feed the bulldog. But then, I've already admitted that I'm not wise enough to figure it out.

Don

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You raise a valid point that Muslim countries are NOT monolithic. Aside from the Sunni vs Shia shism, there are a host of ethnicities. Iran is particularly fractured with ethnic Persians suppressing various ethnic minorities. Shia are actually the largest faction in Iraq but are outnumbered by Sunni, Kurd (compared to infidels, Kurds are almost Muslims), Yazzidi and Christian. If Trump kills this guy's successor and subordinates, Iran might degenerate into civil war.

This Solomini (spelling?) spent most of his time suppressing internal dissent within Iran. Most of the victims of Iran sponsored terrorism in other countries were other Muslims. This guy was NOT universally loved. The carefully orchestrated funeral procession obscures the fact that many Muslims and Iranians are celebrating. The vote in the Iraq Parliament occurred while only the Shia reps were attending.

The US does need to exit Iraq. We have spent over a decade proving that Iraq can not evolve into a stable, secular democracy. The only question is what the exit conditions will be. A civil war in Iraq and Iran is infinately preferable to a sedate domination of Iraq, Syria and Lebanon by Iran.

The last thing Iraq needs is another civil war with the loss of life and treasure that would entail.

These are real people we are taking about. Not pawns to be sacrificed for our interest.

There is something about Iran taking its turn at whack a mole that appeals to me.

A mixed bag I am....

Don

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