All the idiots on the Arcanan side?

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:No.
She was 2nd I C of Garth Showma Institute, a College.

No Guild of Sorcerers has been shown in the texts.

Only Shakira may rule in Mythal. We have not yet been
told about Magistrons legal status elsewhere on Arcana.

HTM

n7axw wrote:IIRC, Gadrial was second in command of the Andaran guild of sorcerers. That meant that crossing her was not a career enhancing move for an Arcanan officer. She did use that at least once to protect S&J. So threatening direct use of her magic wasn't the only tool in her arsenal.

Don

Thank you for the correction. You are right about her being second in command of the Garth Showma Institute.

Turn to HG chapter 14 you will find the reference to the Guild of Sorcerers and how its political status played a role in her confrontation with Hundred Thalmayr.

I turned out mistaken on some of the context, but the main point of my previous post was still ok.

Don

This implies the outworlds are under martial law. The military is responsible for exploration of new universes and the governance of universes that haven't established civilian governance. Authority might well fall predominantly on military hierarchy with a great deal of latitude given to those commanders.

Again, this supports my assertion that the rule of law is weaker for Arcanans at least out in the boonies. The is more a set of guidelines for the commanders to use to address the issues they run into. This might not be how things are intended but it is how things have worked themselves out in reality.

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:Forts Talon and Wyvern are way out in the Outworlds,
twenty or maybe even thirty worlds away from home,
and very far away from any court.

For that matter, textev shows a Union Parliament,
Union Senate, Union Arbitration Commission (UAC),
and an Inspector General's Office.
No courts have been shown yet, unless the UAC counts.
Mythal has a Hegemony, and a Council Of Twelve.

I have not noticed any Law Enforcement Agents at all,
unless UAC officials count. Not even Military Police.
100 Olderham does his own arresting (of vos Haven).
500 Klian and 2000 mulGurthak, fort commanders,
do the judging. No Legal Officers are mentioned.
This far out on the Frontier, only commanders,
not special judges, are enforcing Law.

So what Authority do Senior Magisters have?

HTM

Unless you want to contend that the Rule of Law is weaker for Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders, all that the cited incidents support is that the Code of Service Discipline would make perfect sense to Jasak Olderhan. The procedures shown look very familiar to me, at any rate. Every Arcanan seen up to this point has been either military or a civilian accompanying a military unit on operations. [iirc, used to be sec 44 or 42 of the NDA, but has changed since my day] Not everyone bothers with wildly complicated codes, procedures and bureaucracies that do nothing to promote either justice or respect for the law.

PeterZ wrote:This implies the outworlds are under martial law. The military is responsible for exploration of new universes and the governance of universes that haven't established civilian governance. Authority might well fall predominantly on military hierarchy with a great deal of latitude given to those commanders.

Again, this supports my assertion that the rule of law is weaker for Arcanans at least out in the boonies. The is more a set of guidelines for the commanders to use to address the issues they run into. This might not be how things are intended but it is how things have worked themselves out in reality.

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:Forts Talon and Wyvern are way out in the Outworlds,
twenty or maybe even thirty worlds away from home,
and very far away from any court.

For that matter, textev shows a Union Parliament,
Union Senate, Union Arbitration Commission (UAC),
and an Inspector General's Office.
No courts have been shown yet, unless the UAC counts.
Mythal has a Hegemony, and a Council Of Twelve.

I have not noticed any Law Enforcement Agents at all,
unless UAC officials count. Not even Military Police.
100 Olderham does his own arresting (of vos Haven).
500 Klian and 2000 mulGurthak, fort commanders,
do the judging. No Legal Officers are mentioned.
This far out on the Frontier, only commanders,
not special judges, are enforcing Law.

So what Authority do Senior Magisters have?

HTM

From what I see, Sharona has idiots, jerks, and scumbags aplenty - they just have been lucky so far to have all of them back well behind the war front and on the political side. To the extent that this is unlikely, the original post has a point.

I don't think its just a matter of being idiots. I think Arcanans have a much more proactive view of the world that stems from their technology and version of scientific method.

They experiment to discover what processes will generate any desired effect. This differs from Sharona running experiments to prove theories that explain how the world works. The former assumes the world is malleable and they search for a way to shape it according to their desires. The latter accepts that the world has an immutable reality they must accommodate and work around. In other words, they adapt to the world rather than adapt the world to them.

The core mindset the Arcanan view generates encourages people who assert their desires and forcing everyone and everything to conform to those desires. As I understand it, this is the quintessential Mythalan Line Lord attitude. I am sure most high powered Gifted have a similar view of the world. However, some may also have enough empathy to restrain their impulses.

An observation, following Book 3: Keep in mind we are seeing at the front lines a collection of Arcanan military and civilian personnel that has been liberally 'salted' by mul Gurthak with corruptible and/or corrupted 'bad actors' in his part of the Great Task of discrediting the Andaran military leadership. This process was to be based (my guess here) on their corrupt actions in general, but the conflict with Sharona has made the use of violations of the Kerellian Accords much more attractive to mul Gurthak, and likely much more effective.

While the atrocities have been committed by the Arcanans, they have largely been driven by mul Gurthak's 'planted agents', like Skirvon, Neshok and Carthos. Other Arcanans (and specifically Andarans) have acted to limit or reduce the number of atrocities. I suggest we are not seeing a true picture of the Arcanan or Andaran approach here, but one strongly biased by a few bad actors.

Owlish48 wrote:An observation, following Book 3: Keep in mind we are seeing at the front lines a collection of Arcanan military and civilian personnel that has been liberally 'salted' by mul Gurthak with corruptible and/or corrupted 'bad actors' in his part of the Great Task of discrediting the Andaran military leadership. This process was to be based (my guess here) on their corrupt actions in general, but the conflict with Sharona has made the use of violations of the Kerellian Accords much more attractive to mul Gurthak, and likely much more effective.

While the atrocities have been committed by the Arcanans, they have largely been driven by mul Gurthak's 'planted agents', like Skirvon, Neshok and Carthos. Other Arcanans (and specifically Andarans) have acted to limit or reduce the number of atrocities. I suggest we are not seeing a true picture of the Arcanan or Andaran approach here, but one strongly biased by a few bad actors.

Agreed. I find myself thinking that Velvelig and his pet Arcanans could have a real impact on the situation here. Arcanans with a sense of honor willing to put their lives on the line for it.... How will Sharon's react? Hummm...

Don

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