capturing Alignment agents

I've been having some more thoughts on the nanite's triggers and I think the person plays a role. I think they're triggering on a "I've been caught" reaction. There doesn't seem to be any specific trigger required but they go off when the agent knows he's been discovered. While it's possible they are all actually suicide-by-nanite I don't think the Alignment would want to trust in that. Some of the assassinations show an ability to evaluate the situation in complex ways that have to be using the host's senses, if they're getting their information from the host why not get the evaluation of the situation from the host, also?

Loren Pechtel wrote: Some of the assassinations show an ability to evaluate the situation in complex ways that have to be using the host's senses, if they're getting their information from the host why not get the evaluation of the situation from the host, also?

It is beginning to sound like the Alignment, having wandered into the area of self-replicating nanites as weapons, has also come up with the equivalent of a nanite AI. It/they need a host and they are tuned to the host by someone with a lab kit and a sample (probably of blood but it could be almost any live cells.
Just how far down the Rabbit Hole do you want to take this?
The nannies are apparently programable to make the host do various complex things. How complex? 1st good example is Honor's flag Lt taking a sidearm from an Armsman and then opening fire-even if not with the skill level of a trained assassin. The nannies had to be able to recognize a set of criteria and then, having taken over control of his body with his mind still conscious, operate the body to do the disarm, take the gun and start shooting.
Rajampet's sequence was much easier- there was a verbal trigger, the weapon was at hand and (again with the mind conscious) take out the pulsar and shoot himself in the head.
The two at Smoking Frog had just been arrested. Their looks of concentration could have been a physical reaction- which had no impact on the operaton of the nannies - of realizing something was wrong with themselves but having no clue what it was....they didn't have to actualy do anything, the nanite gave them artificialy induced fatal internal events.
So, how do the nanite controls work? Has the Alignment worked out what the chemial and neurological results are of discovering that your cover is blown? That doesn't fly with Tim Meares or with the Havenite Ambassador's driver or they company rep who brought the binary gas to the Torch gathering.
I realize that we are talking about running a complicated set of software instructions on really tiny organic particles but at some point we have seemed to have crossed into the point where the nannies are making really complex decisions based on their host's observations and analysis of their suroundings.
Organic Assasin AIs...now there is truly a poke in the eye for Beowulf. I wonder if the Alignment has even thought of some way to make these things non-replicable outside the host they were tailored to?
Isn't this the same level of investigation that Albrect's wife was working on?
Talk about SuperFlu.
Perhaps there will be a lab accident on Darius and (if humanity is really really lucky) everything in the Darius system and inside the secret wormhole network will be killed by the nannies which will die off when the last host dies and the the precursors and lab stocks are destroyed/die when the lab power fails catostrophicly and the "standard" nuclear emergency destruct charge- lets say it's only a minor 300megatones- goes off.

Not sure why this matters. We know that these agents exist, so just continue interviewing with a tree cat present and a stock of body bags.

Loren Pechtel wrote:I've been having some more thoughts on the nanite's triggers and I think the person plays a role. I think they're triggering on a "I've been caught" reaction. There doesn't seem to be any specific trigger required but they go off when the agent knows he's been discovered. While it's possible they are all actually suicide-by-nanite I don't think the Alignment would want to trust in that. Some of the assassinations show an ability to evaluate the situation in complex ways that have to be using the host's senses, if they're getting their information from the host why not get the evaluation of the situation from the host, also?

See also Brigade_XO's reply, but we have another counter-example: Gweon. When he was discovered, we were given insight into his mind: he did not realise he was discovered. He was wondering why his fiancée's financial analyst was bring brought up, with no indication he connected that to his fiancée's handler and source of orders. Then he promptly died.

Galactic Sapper wrote:The triggering phrase seems to be "you're under arrest" for most cases. Not stress or nervousness, the nanites are capable of triggering off things said to or by the carrier. See also the agent who dies telling Victor "it's an onion".

If a simple "You're under arrest" will trigger the nanites, presumably all MAlign agents are conditioned to never watch mystery/crime programs.

I don't think the guy from Cauldron of Ghosts was a nanite carrier, though. I'd have to dig through my Kindle, but as I recall he and many other low-level agents on Mesa had hacked medical implants that would kill them if it didn't get the "stay alive" signal on a regular basis.

Julia Minor wrote:If a simple "You're under arrest" will trigger the nanites, presumably all MAlign agents are conditioned to never watch mystery/crime programs.

I don't think the guy from Cauldron of Ghosts was a nanite carrier, though. I'd have to dig through my Kindle, but as I recall he and many other low-level agents on Mesa had hacked medical implants that would kill them if it didn't get the "stay alive" signal on a regular basis.

Obviously it's context sensitive, not literal.

As for Lajos Irvine, he had both suicide nanites and a timed kill switch. It was probably the same system - two ways of triggering the same suicide effect rather than two separate systems with two separate suicide effects. And yes, he definitely died from a nanite-induced stroke triggered by telling Victor "It's an onion. It's always an onion. And it seems I'm not--" *dies*

So yet another question is raised--Gweon wasn't arested but he dies when the he starts to wonder why they mention his fiancé's finacial analyst.
If he didn't know that was a player in all of this, why should that trigger the nanites?

Unless that line of thought created enough intrnal conflict (to the level of his being arrested), would that possibly be tied to some list of names or situations or even questions about people who his very close people (the fiancé would qualify as a close person) in a possible compromise position- for Gweon- you are running back to the idea that the nanites have an awful lot of detail and programing instructions to run through which could trigger a kill situation.
Ok, the nanites are possibly acting as a dispursed computing network to hold information, monitor SOMETHING in or happening near the host and if something goes over a certain threshold it triggers a kill event. The type of even it probably fairly simple- like a heart attack- but how it is triggered and what is the mechanism (chemical, nureal etc) generated by the nanites to do it. Is there way for a human body to generate verious chemicals that cause a heart attack or something like an aneurysm? Other than stress?
So, is it possible that the nanites kick up something like a massive jolt of adrenaline (really massive) to do the killing except that wouldn't that show up in an autopsy?

Brigade XO wrote:Unless that line of thought created enough intrnal conflict (to the level of his being arrested), would that possibly be tied to some list of names or situations or even questions about people who his very close people (the fiancé would qualify as a close person) in a possible compromise position- for Gweon- you are running back to the idea that the nanites have an awful lot of detail and programing instructions to run through which could trigger a kill situation.
Ok, the nanites are possibly acting as a dispursed computing network to hold information, monitor SOMETHING in or happening near the host and if something goes over a certain threshold it triggers a kill event. The type of even it probably fairly simple- like a heart attack- but how it is triggered and what is the mechanism (chemical, nureal etc) generated by the nanites to do it. Is there way for a human body to generate verious chemicals that cause a heart attack or something like an aneurysm? Other than stress?
So, is it possible that the nanites kick up something like a massive jolt of adrenaline (really massive) to do the killing except that wouldn't that show up in an autopsy?

Here's an interesting thought: if you could reverse engineer the nanites, could you come up with a list of agents to capture?

As for the how, it's likely the nanites just directly cause the issue. A brain aneurysm is just blood vessels rupturing in the brain. A heart attack can be achieved by electrical jolts (and the closer to the heart, the smaller the energy required).

Brigade XO wrote:So yet another question is raised--Gweon wasn't arested but he dies when the he starts to wonder why they mention his fiancé's finacial analyst.
If he didn't know that was a player in all of this, why should that trigger the nanites?

He was arrested.

Uncompromising Honor wrote:"Actually, Admiral," Gaddis replied releasing his hand and stepping back a pace. "You can keep your hands where we can see them."

"What?" Gweon's eyes went wide as Okiku produced a stunner and pointed it at him. Something about the colonel's dark, almond eyes suggested that she really, really wanted to squeeze it's trigger.

"I'm afraid you're under arrest, Rear Admiral Gweon," Gaddis said coldly.

"Excuse me?" Gweon stared at him, his expression one of shocked disbelief, segueing with perfect timing into outraged innocence. "Under arrest?" His voice gained volume. "What for?"

"Treason against the Solarian League will do for starters." Gaddis's voice was carved from Ganymedian ice. "We know about your and your fiancee, and our other agents are picking up Rajmund Nyhus and Shafiqa Bolton at this very moment." "I'm sure that between them and your other friends, you'll have plenty to tell us about the people you're really working for."

Gweon froze. The surprised innocence flowed off his face like water, and his eyes went cold and very focused for just a moment. Then his hands rose to clutch his head, his knees sagged, and he toppled forward.

He was dead by the time his face hit the carpet.

It may be the threat of interrogation that sets the nanites off, not just being arrested. The two on Smoking Frog died after Barregos told them he'd be shipping them off to Manticore. Although it may be a trick of timing, meaning that there may be a few seconds delay between the nanites triggering and the agent dying. If there was say 20-30 seconds between activation and "deactivation", it might disguise exactly what the trigger is.

Galactic Sapper wrote:

Uncompromising Honor wrote:Gweon froze. The surprised innocence flowed off his face like water, and his eyes went cold and very focused for just a moment. Then his hands rose to clutch his head, his knees sagged, and he toppled forward.

He was dead by the time his face hit the carpet.

It may be the threat of interrogation that sets the nanites off, not just being arrested. The two on Smoking Frog died after Barregos told them he'd be shipping them off to Manticore. Although it may be a trick of timing, meaning that there may be a few seconds delay between the nanites triggering and the agent dying. If there was say 20-30 seconds between activation and "deactivation", it might disguise exactly what the trigger is.

The part "The surprised innocence flowed off his face like water, and his eyes went cold and very focused for just a moment" could actually be very relevant. (BTW, thanks for the quote, I mis-remembered the details)

Could it be that his concentration was him triggering the nanites consciously?

And could all the agents have as much self-discipline to do it?