Trump Implementing the Palin. doctrin

It has been getting warmer in recent decades, but it isn't unprecedented.

https://www.drroyspencer.com/global-war ... peratures/

Why does so much of your ‘response’ consist of inane self-congratulation and childish ad hominem insults? For that matter, why are so many of your posts full of childish insults? What are you, twelve years old? That would explain…much.

The E wrote:Like, right here: You deny that the climate has changed, when by several objective measures it definitely has. Regardless of the mechanisms behind it, our current climate now is different from what it was several decades and centuries ago. There is a large corpus of historical measurements from around the globe confirming this.

You mean historical measurements from the Little Ice Age, those 500 years when reduced solar activity caused long, frigid winters and short, wet summers? When poor growing conditions led to reduced harvests and massive famines? When Europeans were so weakened by the wet, cold weather and starvation that a third of them died of the plague? I would hope the climate has warmed up compared to that. Or to 1816, the ‘year without a summer’ caused by the Tambora eruption in 1815.

All those climate models which include the Little Ice Age as part of their baselines are worthless.

Climate changes. It changed for three and a half billion years without us, and it will continue to change, with or without us, for billions more, until the sun grows hot enough to boil the oceans and strip the atmosphere off the planet.

We are currently in the Holocene Interglacial Period. Do you know what an interglacial period is? That brief interval of warm climate between ice ages. Not Little Ice Ages, BIG ice ages. As in, ‘Berlin is buried under a glacier two kilometers deep’ ice ages. THAT has been the normal climate for 80% of the last few million years. The next Big Ice Age is a few thousand years overdue. I remember how climate scientists were all in a tizzy about that back in the 1970’s, proclaiming that The End Is Near! We’re All Gonna Freeze!

So, I’m not in a panic about rising temperatures, and it sure is a long stretch from ‘the climate is warming back up from the Little Ice Age’ to ‘THE U.S. MUST STOP BURNING COAL, OIL AND GAS TOMORROW AND DESTROY OUR ECONOMY BECAUSE THE SKY IS FALLING!!!’

Why is THE CLIMATE CATASTROPHE!!! eternally ten years away? For the last 20 years I’ve been hearing about The End Of The World In Ten Years! based on The Science Is Settled, and none of their doomsday prophecies have come true. The world is still here, pretty much the same as it was 20 years ago. Is it any wonder they are being dismissed as a flock of Chicken Littles?

The E wrote:Also, "running to the king in a panic"? No, my friend. We're running to the King with pitchforks and torches, because he is part of a generation that has squandered a lot of time that could've been used to deal with it while the dealing was easy.

That sure looks like panic to me. It is also telling that the only ’solution’ you can imagine is to have the King compel other people to do what you want them to do. Obviously, you Know Best because you’re soooo much smarter than everybody else, and if they can’t see that, it just proves how stupid they are. All those idiots must be forced into line, that’s the King’s job, and by damn you WILL make him do it!

The E wrote:You're either delusional or stupid if you believe that the changes you describe can be done without "intrusive government interference".

More childish insults. It is neither delusional nor stupid to see beyond your constricted view of reality. I decided on my own to spend $14,000 installing solar panels on my roof to save on electric bills. They have already produced over 24 megawatt-hours of electricity, much more than I use. What have YOU done? Other than whine and spew insults, that is?

I know, I know, you Believe in Authoritarian Big Government. It shows through in everything you post. You Believe that Big Government is the only answer to every question, the only solution to every problem. If Big Government fails to solve a problem, even if it makes the situation worse, the only answer you can conceive of is to throw more Big Government at it, give the authoritarians more control over people’s lives.

The E wrote:***Meaningless waffling about climate change being a big bad conspiracy excised***

I speak only of what has already been done. Look up those government boondoggles yourself, all those billions of dollars of our money handed out to 0bama’s cronies, for which we got NOTHING in return. No ‘green energy’ was produced, only huge amounts of money wasted. Look up the scientists who were cast out for questioning The Holy Writ Of Global Warming.
———————————
There is no shortage of people convinced they can create the perfect world. Trouble is, they always start out by fucking up this one.

The idea of Berlin and the rest of Germany being buried under 2 kilometers of ice appeals to me.

If I had any artistic talent, I would draw a cartoon of the Ostritch Fuher bent over with its head between its legs, inserting its tiny cranium deep into its volumous rectum chanting, "global warming, global warming" as ice piles up around it.

Imaginos1892 wrote:Why does so much of your ‘response’ consist of inane self-congratulation and childish ad hominem insults? For that matter, why are so many of your posts full of childish insults? What are you, twelve years old? That would explain…much.

Why are so many of your posts filled with wild generalizations about muslims? What are you, an islamophobe? That would explain much.

You mean historical measurements from the Little Ice Age, those 500 years when reduced solar activity caused long, frigid winters and short, wet summers? When poor growing conditions led to reduced harvests and massive famines? When Europeans were so weakened by the wet, cold weather and starvation that a third of them died of the plague? I would hope the climate has warmed up compared to that. Or to 1816, the ‘year without a summer’ caused by the Tambora eruption in 1815.

All those climate models which include the Little Ice Age as part of their baselines are worthless.

You heard it here first, folks: Climate models that take historical data into account are wrong.

As I said above: regardless of the reasons behind it, the fact that the climate is changing and that those changes include some that are catastrophic in nature is a hard one. Sitting back and enjoying the sunshine is just not an option we have.

Climate changes. It changed for three and a half billion years without us, and it will continue to change, with or without us, for billions more, until the sun grows hot enough to boil the oceans and strip the atmosphere off the planet.

And that it changes faster with us and our modern industry as part of the picture doesn't raise any concerns for you?

We are currently in the Holocene Interglacial Period. Do you know what an interglacial period is? That brief interval of warm climate between ice ages. Not Little Ice Ages, BIG ice ages. As in, ‘Berlin is buried under a glacier two kilometers deep’ ice ages. THAT has been the normal climate for 80% of the last few million years. The next Big Ice Age is a few thousand years overdue. I remember how climate scientists were all in a tizzy about that back in the 1970’s, proclaiming that The End Is Near! We’re All Gonna Freeze!

Hah, those silly scientists, never getting their stories straight. You ask them something, you get an answer, you ask the same question a year later, and they're telling you the opposite; just what are they good for, really?

It's always funny to me how people like you seem to believe that scientific consensus changing is an indicator of science being unreliable.

So, I’m not in a panic about rising temperatures, and it sure is a long stretch from ‘the climate is warming back up from the Little Ice Age’ to ‘THE U.S. MUST STOP BURNING COAL, OIL AND GAS TOMORROW AND DESTROY OUR ECONOMY BECAUSE THE SKY IS FALLING!!!’

Why is THE CLIMATE CATASTROPHE!!! eternally ten years away? For the last 20 years I’ve been hearing about The End Of The World In Ten Years! based on The Science Is Settled, and none of their doomsday prophecies have come true. The world is still here, pretty much the same as it was 20 years ago. Is it any wonder they are being dismissed as a flock of Chicken Littles?

Look at you not being affected by climate change in any real way. Must be nice.

That sure looks like panic to me. It is also telling that the only ’solution’ you can imagine is to have the King compel other people to do what you want them to do. Obviously, you Know Best because you’re soooo much smarter than everybody else, and if they can’t see that, it just proves how stupid they are. All those idiots must be forced into line, that’s the King’s job, and by damn you WILL make him do it!

If the alternative is to rely on people like you, who seem to believe that any self-interest must be enlightened and therefore good, then yes.
We've seen often enough that relying on "enlightened self-interest" and "market forces" plain does not work.

More childish insults. It is neither delusional nor stupid to see beyond your constricted view of reality. I decided on my own to spend $14,000 installing solar panels on my roof to save on electric bills. They have already produced over 24 megawatt-hours of electricity, much more than I use. What have YOU done? Other than whine and spew insults, that is?

Good on you. I mean that sincerely: Good on you to switch at least partially to renewable energy sources.

However: You wouldn't have been able to do that without a lot of government intervention to fund research and subsidize production.

As for what I, personally, have done? Not much. I pay my taxes, I use the limited means available to me to incentivize companies to offer renewable energy, and that's about it; Oh, I have also voted for parties and representatives that agree with me.
See, the thing is, up until about 2 years ago, I was functionally destitute: My ability to make a meaningful impact was and is very limited.

I know, I know, you Believe in Authoritarian Big Government. It shows through in everything you post. You Believe that Big Government is the only answer to every question, the only solution to every problem. If Big Government fails to solve a problem, even if it makes the situation worse, the only answer you can conceive of is to throw more Big Government at it, give the authoritarians more control over people’s lives.

This is hyperbolic, but there is a kernel of truth there: Yes, I do believe in what you think is "big government": I do think that governments need to serve the needs of the people and act counter to the wants and desires of corporations and people rich enough to warp society around them.

I speak only of what has already been done. Look up those government boondoggles yourself, all those billions of dollars of our money handed out to 0bama’s cronies, for which we got NOTHING in return. No ‘green energy’ was produced, only huge amounts of money wasted. Look up the scientists who were cast out for questioning The Holy Writ Of Global Warming.

That, as they say, is a you problem. Meanwhile, over here in a country less riddled with silliness, we've actually made meaningful progress in getting solar, water and other renewable power sources to a level of efficiency that they can take over meaningful portions of our energy production.

I thought that I would post some information on the problems with the peer review process.

The Ostritch Fuher keeps chanting "peer review" in response to my reasonable challenge to understand the problem at the fundamental level so that he can recognize the bull shit. If The E were to actually understand the basic physics and the math, he would understand that the Greenhouse Effect is extremely real and that Germany would be buried under ice without it. Of course Germany is so far North that even with the greenhouse effect it would be buried in ice if the Gulf Stream didn't transport heat up to the North Sea. He would also understand that it is ludicrous for the German government to mandate solar power when insolation is so low.

Is Peer Review a Gold Standard, or just Brass Plated?
A primary defense of many unscientific claims is that they
have been “peer-reviewed.” The implication is that the peer-
review process confers an imprimatur of scientific accuracy
— but that is totally false.
A superb summary of the situation was made by Dr. Richard
Horton, editor of the respected medical journal, the Lancet:
“The mistake, of course, is to have thought that peer
review was any more than a crude means of discovering
the acceptability — not the validity — of a new finding.
“Editors and scientists alike insist on the pivotal
importance of peer review. We portray peer review to the
public as a quasi-sacred process that helps to make
science our most objective truth teller.
“But we know that the system of peer review is biased,
unjust, unaccountable, incomplete, easily fixed, often
insulting, usually ignorant, occasionally foolish, and
frequently wrong.”
The following is a tiny sample of studies, reports and articles
about some of the issues with “peer-review”. The bottom line
is that peer review is a purposefully corrupted process that
does little more than endorse accepted “wisdom”:
1. Is Peer-Review a Requirement of Good Science?
2. Peer review: a flawed process at the heart of science and
journals
3. Science Is Suffering Because of Peer Review’s Big
Problems

TFLYTSNBN wrote:<snip>
Dr Roy Spencer describes you with depressing accuray
<snip>

Did you really quote that guy?

1. He believes in ID.
2. He believes in "An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming" (which basically says the climate is natural because God designed it like that and nothing humans do will alter it).

Which makes anything he says suspect, because he has already decided his belief is right.

Joat42 wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:<snip>
Dr Roy Spencer describes you with depressing accuray
<snip>

Did you really quote that guy?

1. He believes in ID.
2. He believes in "An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming" (which basically says the climate is natural because God designed it like that and nothing humans do will alter it).

Which makes anything he says suspect, because he has already decided his belief is right.

Did you actually read "An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming."

Here is the link:

https://cornwallalliance.org/2009/05/ev ... l-warming/

The declaration does not state that CO2 can not effect the Earth's climate. The declaration states that God intentionally designed the Earth's climate to be resilient to changes rather than hypersensitive. If this was not true, we would not be here.

The fundamental physical constants of the Universe have obviously been fine tuned to make life possible.

There we have the nub of the matter, fly. If you do believe that, then no amount of reasoned logic will shift your belief, so discussion is pointless.

Daryl wrote:There we have the nub of the matter, fly. If you do believe that, then no amount of reasoned logic will shift your belief, so discussion is pointless.

Pretty much.. The hubris in the belief that the universe and Earth was created for the sole purpose of sustaining man.

Joat42 wrote:

Daryl wrote:There we have the nub of the matter, fly. If you do believe that, then no amount of reasoned logic will shift your belief, so discussion is pointless.

Pretty much.. The hubris in the belief that the universe and Earth was created for the sole purpose of sustaining man.

And there we have the nub of the matter, you two refuse to discuss the matter because you are unable to acknowledge the possibility that just may be the Earth's ecosystem is more resilient than you imagine. If you had accepted my challenge to write the thermodynamic equation that defines the equilibrium temperature of the planet, then you just might have learned something about radiative heat transfer. You might have understood that there are variables other than IR emissivity that effect the equilibrium temperature. Even more importantly, you might have even recognized that the equilibrium temperature is extremely insensitive to changes in these three variables. If you two bigots had actually been willing to honor the challenge and crunch the numbers, you would have understood that without the greenhouse effect, the Earth would be frozen over.

Of course your indignation at my suggestion that you simplify the equation by presuming that the Earth's surface is a thermal superconductor prevented you from understanding that the Earth is cooler at the equator and temperate zones because so much heat is transferred to the polar regions. This might have given you the insight that the Arctic and Antarctic are the planetary radiators that can effectively cool the Earth because of the near absence of water vapor, not CO2. An even more astonishing insight to you is there is a heat transport mechanism other than radiative heat transfer that is profoundly important. At this point you might have even realized that there exists a heat transfer mechanism other than radiative heat transfer that transfers heat from the Earth's surface to the upper atmosphere. This effectively short circuits the greenhouse effect making CO2 almost irrelevant.

Neither I or the scientists that you disparage for believing in Intelligent Design are stupid enough to believe that humanity can not screw up the planet at some point. We just aren't there yet. We shouldn't be condemning billions of people to live in poverty or commit genocide to cull the "surplus" population to "save the planet.".

Gyou guys are the dangerous religious zealots.