Why didn't Merlin kill Zhaspyr Clyntahn?

I don't think there's a way for Merlin to kill Clyntahn without severely hindering his own goals.

Anything obviously divine like the Rakurai would end the current war almost immediately, but it would also be the ultimate proof of Langhornes teaching for several generations, especially in Charis since it would prove God is on their side, setting Merlin back several hundred years. The Rakurai would also kill at least the entire population of Zion and a good portion of the temple lands, and possibly a good chunk of the nations surrounding it, so I doubt Merlin would even consider it. It wouldn't even really end the war, just delay it for a few hundred years while cutting into Merlin's credibility when the time comes to reveal the truth. When people ask why they should believe him when God has obviously used the Rakurai twice, he'll have to admit to using the Rakurai and being a mass murderer if he wants to explain how it's not Gods ultimate punishment.

Anything not obviously an Act of God but above the capabilities of Safehold humans, like attacking with a recon skimmer or blowing up a SNARC in his ear, leaves it too open to turning Clyntahn into a martyr murdered by demons. It would be easy for Trynair and Clyntahn's successor to spin it into been done in revenge for his now obviously true charges against those demon worshiping Wylsynns and purge of the other heretical demon worshipers on the council of vicars. Or between OAR and AMF, in revenge for the killing of the demon worshiper Erayck Dynnys/opposing the demon worshipers in Charis. The only way for Merlin to prevent those accusations would be to take direct control of the church as a new angel, which he's not going to do.

Anything obviously human? Again, martyr, killed by Charisian assassins same as Prince Hektor. This method deals far less damage to Merlins goals than the others, but it still deals damage. Probably the biggest effect would be that the Earl of Coris and a lot of people in Corisande would see it as proof that Cayleb killed Hektor, not the Church, undoing a lot of the effort to keep the peace in Corisande.

The only real way for Merlin to kill Clyntahn without hurting his own goals would be to arrange an accident like with Erayck Dynnys back in OAR. But since Merlin can't risk getting too close to temple, and Clyntahn never leaves the temple, it's impossible to pull off.

Donnachaidh wrote:The problem with using a rifle is that then Charis would be blamed for assassinating a Vicar of the Church of God Awaiting.

PeterZ wrote:I could see Merlin sniping Clyntahn with a rifle. He hit a target at 400 yards or so. Heck, we know he could move around Zion pretty well unnoticed.

The primary reason has got to be plot consideration. All the other excuses are more rationalization than anything else.

I know. However, don't try to hide the fact. Clyntahn tried to burn down the entire Kingdom of Charis without what passed for due process in the CoGA. Charis however, will tell you point blank that anyone in the chain of command is a target. Declare war on Charis and the leadership is putting their necks on the line as much as the grunts. Civilians outside the chain of command are off limits.

I am not advocating it as much as presenting the reasoning. I would prefer to have Clyntahn continue breathing for plot considerations. He makes such a detestable villian.

Clyntahn may not be killed yet, but what if merlin hunts the inquisition, attacking those with known crimes. If enough of those who willing follow him are removed, those that disagree or oppose would be free to act against him.

SYED wrote:Clyntahn may not be killed yet, but what if merlin hunts the inquisition, attacking those with known crimes. If enough of those who willing follow him are removed, those that disagree or oppose would be free to act against him.

Not Merlin. Probably Angelique and her network. She promissed as much when we saw her last.

Knowing her she will get the inquisition to do her dirty work for her. She and her group may plant "evidence" on her targets and let other inquisitors eliminate. For those few that are too high for this to work, then send in her black ops teams or ask for Seijin Abrhaim's help.

PeterZ wrote:

SYED wrote:Clyntahn may not be killed yet, but what if merlin hunts the inquisition, attacking those with known crimes. If enough of those who willing follow him are removed, those that disagree or oppose would be free to act against him.

Not Merlin. Probably Angelique and her network. She promissed as much when we saw her last.

Knowing her she will get the inquisition to do her dirty work for her. She and her group may plant "evidence" on her targets and let other inquisitors eliminate. For those few that are too high for this to work, then send in her black ops teams or ask for Seijin Abrhaim's help.

Hi PeterZ,

Excellent as usual,

I'm sure the MWW has some suitable end in mind for the Go4, but I doubt we'll guess it here.

We don't know Samuel Wilson's magnificent contacts in Clytahn's office (BSRA #2), but so far no textev that they were caught, and Angelica probably knows who they are; so only a secure method for them to pass their info along in a timely manner for Merlin & company may be needed to reduce this blind spot.

But that would mean the Go4 could spring no further secrets again, which would be terrible from a storyline perspective.

Some have suggested a long lingering wound (poison?) that eventually causes paralysis, so he can appreciate the collapse of the inquisition and the temple, but even that's too good for him.

Keep up the great posts,

L

lyonheart wrote:

Hi PeterZ,

Excellent as usual,

I'm sure the MWW has some suitable end in mind for the Go4, but I doubt we'll guess it here.

We don't know Samuel Wilson's magnificent contacts in Clytahn's office (BSRA #2), but so far no textev that they were caught, and Angelica probably knows who they are; so only a secure method for them to pass their info along in a timely manner for Merlin & company may be needed to reduce this blind spot.

But that would mean the Go4 could spring no further secrets again, which would be terrible from a storyline perspective.

Some have suggested a long lingering wound (poison?) that eventually causes paralysis, so he can appreciate the collapse of the inquisition and the temple, but even that's too good for him.

Keep up the great posts,

L

Long and short of it...does the G4 survive this book?
Anyone? Looking for some sort of poll here.

PeterZ wrote:

lyonheart wrote:

Hi PeterZ,

Excellent as usual,

I'm sure the MWW has some suitable end in mind for the Go4, but I doubt we'll guess it here.

We don't know Samuel Wilson's magnificent contacts in Clytahn's office (BSRA #2), but so far no textev that they were caught, and Angelica probably knows who they are; so only a secure method for them to pass their info along in a timely manner for Merlin & company may be needed to reduce this blind spot.

But that would mean the Go4 could spring no further secrets again, which would be terrible from a storyline perspective.

Some have suggested a long lingering wound (poison?) that eventually causes paralysis, so he can appreciate the collapse of the inquisition and the temple, but even that's too good for him.

Keep up the great posts,

L

Long and short of it...does the G4 survive this book?
Anyone? Looking for some sort of poll here.

Hi PeterZ,

A "very interesting" question.

If the Rakurai are eliminated from the equation, perhaps.

If book #5 HFaF covers only another year, I think it might be book 6 for a possible Charisian invasion using cylinder percussion weapons etc.

Given that Port Harbor is around 50-60 miles from Zion, within quick marching distance, and even closer if the Charisian infantry use bike to carry their gear besides at least doubling their marching speed.

I think explosive shells offer Charis an overwhelming advantage against any future wooden temple fleet over the next couple of years at least, time to prepare such an invasion.

Book 5 in my view should also encompass the defeat and capture of the Desnarian navy, the destruction of its shipyards and supporting infrastructure sometime in the spring to summer at the latest, leaving only ~140 ships for Thirsk and Harchong to take to Chisholm, if they do, as well as a demonstration or two of what the ICM can do to cavalry, etc.

I suspect if they don't come by June, Cayleb will go hunting for them.

There may be a naval battle off Corisande in the narrow straits between it and Trellheim, which may take some time to get word of its terrible results to Zion...
But will Cayleb be wounded?

If Cayleb goes east, will he strike Dohlar first?

If book 5 doesn't, it should 'clear the stage'; ie remove the Go4's options to either violate the prescriptions (if they don't in #5) or be invaded, if not suffer defeat in some other fashion.

Of course the problem of beating the Go4 in HFaF is developing the follow on opposition characters for the rest of the series.

I started out as 50-50, now I'm more 33-67. :-)

L

lyonheart wrote:

PeterZ wrote:Long and short of it...does the G4 survive this book?
Anyone? Looking for some sort of poll here.

Hi PeterZ,

A "very interesting" question.

If the Rakurai are eliminated from the equation, perhaps.

If book #5 HFaF covers only another year, I think it might be book 6 for a possible Charisian invasion using cylinder percussion weapons etc.

Given that Port Harbor is around 50-60 miles from Zion, within quick marching distance, and even closer if the Charisian infantry use bike to carry their gear besides at least doubling their marching speed.

I think explosive shells offer Charis an overwhelming advantage against any future wooden temple fleet over the next couple of years at least, time to prepare such an invasion.

Book 5 in my view should also encompass the defeat and capture of the Desnarian navy, the destruction of its shipyards and supporting infrastructure sometime in the spring to summer at the latest, leaving only ~140 ships for Thirsk and Harchong to take to Chisholm, if they do, as well as a demonstration or two of what the ICM can do to cavalry, etc.

I suspect if they don't come by June, Cayleb will go hunting for them.

There may be a naval battle off Corisande in the narrow straits between it and Trellheim, which may take some time to get word of its terrible results to Zion...
But will Cayleb be wounded?

If Cayleb goes east, will he strike Dohlar first?

If book 5 doesn't, it should 'clear the stage'; ie remove the Go4's options to either violate the prescriptions (if they don't in #5) or be invaded, if not suffer defeat in some other fashion.

Of course the problem of beating the Go4 in HFaF is developing the follow on opposition characters for the rest of the series.

I started out as 50-50, now I'm more 33-67. :-)

L

Reading your thoughts as they stitch together a logical chain is kind of fun, Lyonheart. Thanks for sharing.

I can't argue with your logic. I will only say that it ignores Rohbair. Charis raiding Zion with devestating weapons does many of the things to discredit the G4 version of God's will. What it does not do leave a stable counter weight for the massive unrest that will spring up from such a shattering of the very fabric of Safehold society.

Harchong is the richest and most populated nation on Safehold. They rely on slave labor. The Temple Lands still rely on serfs. Those institutions exist only with the tacit approval of the CoGA. Take the moral authority of that approval away and those institutions begin to smolder and burn away.

The nobility also has the CoGA stamp of approval. How do they justify their privileges without the CoGA moral stamp of approval?

If Charis invades Zion, Howard and Haven go up in flames much like Germany in the 30 years war. That may or may not be good for Charis. Certainly they can build up a massive advantage in their technology. They will also be charged with bringing hell on earth during that period. Considering the stability of Safehold society for darn near a millenia, this upheval may permanenetly tar and feather Charis' reputation with the rest of Safehold.

So, my gut tells me the G4 goes down through internal machinations in this book. The CoGA will carry on but the leadership structure will radically change.

@PeterZ
Long and short of it...does the G4 survive this book?
Anyone? Looking for some sort of poll here.

I believe the Go4 will not disolve so soon as in the next book.

They are TOO GOOD as evil characters and I think Mr Weber is not yet finished using them in his story ;)

Besides, the waters are getting somewhat muddy as at least one of them seems to be having a regeneration of faith - - -

I think Merlin should stop off at the gates of the temple and leave a letter for Clyntahn saying, "I will come for you" or even something leaving criminal charges against them. (Go4)