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Dirigible **guided** bombing

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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Dilandu   » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:33 pm

Dilandu
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SilverbladeTE wrote:I wonder if Federation tech came up with a system both sensitive enough to detect a ship's magnetic field far.enough and craftable by Safehold tech....
Hm?


Of course not. The distance on which any crude mechanical magnetic device would work would be totally insufficient.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Joat42   » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:19 am

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Dilandu wrote:
SilverbladeTE wrote:I wonder if Federation tech came up with a system both sensitive enough to detect a ship's magnetic field far.enough and craftable by Safehold tech....
Hm?


Of course not. The distance on which any crude mechanical magnetic device would work would be totally insufficient.

If I remember correctly, current generation consumer rated MEMS can detect down to 1 nT fields, but it depends on what's going on with the magnetic field (alternating, moving or static).

The current Safehold tech can probably build somewhat sensitive variants by using micro-reflectors and reflected light for measurement, but detecting any kind of ships at distances over tens of meters is most likely impossible.

Remember that to build something that is very sensitive it has to be extremely small which means you suddenly have to deal with Van der Waal forces and you probably wouldn't be able to get any measurements out of it without electricity and amplifier circuits either.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.

Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:06 am

Dilandu
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Joat42 wrote:

The current Safehold tech can probably build somewhat sensitive variants by using micro-reflectors and reflected light for measurement, but detecting any kind of ships at distances over tens of meters is most likely impossible.



And how would you translate reflected light into any kind of motion impulse without electric?

Nah, seems the optimal idea is just to ask for volunteers ready to pilot the bomb toward the target and jump on parashute at last moment before impact (with some kind of ejection seat, maybe)

Of course, they would probably be captured by enemy, so if the next war woukd be as unpleasant as previous jihad... you know, just drop the ejection. Let the pilot guide the bomb till impact. Cynical, of course, but lets not forget, that kamikaze tactis were designed to SAVE lives in the situation of superior US defenses (better to deliberately sacrifice one pilot, than almost inevitably the whole crew)
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Joat42   » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:25 am

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Dilandu wrote:
Joat42 wrote:The current Safehold tech can probably build somewhat sensitive variants by using micro-reflectors and reflected light for measurement, but detecting any kind of ships at distances over tens of meters is most likely impossible.


And how would you translate reflected light into any kind of motion impulse without electric?

There are ways to accomplish that, but they are impractical and don't work on any timescale that's practical for guiding bombs.

I just noted that it's possible to build a somewhat sensitive detector.
Dilandu wrote:Nah, seems the optimal idea is just to ask for volunteers ready to pilot the bomb toward the target and jump on parashute at last moment before impact (with some kind of ejection seat, maybe)

Of course, they would probably be captured by enemy, so if the next war woukd be as unpleasant as previous jihad... you know, just drop the ejection. Let the pilot guide the bomb till impact. Cynical, of course, but lets not forget, that kamikaze tactis were designed to SAVE lives in the situation of superior US defenses (better to deliberately sacrifice one pilot, than almost inevitably the whole crew)

Or just drop lots of bombs if you don't care about collateral damage.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.

Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:51 am

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Joat42 wrote:
There are ways to accomplish that


Hm, could you describe them? I'm honestly interested.

Dilandu wrote:
Or just drop lots of bombs if you don't care about collateral damage.


Collateral damage to the sea (if we are talking about hitting a moving warship) is hardly a problem. But accuracy is.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Joat42   » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:09 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
Joat42 wrote:
There are ways to accomplish that


Hm, could you describe them? I'm honestly interested.

Use the reflected light to trigger chemical light amplification which in turn is used to heat bimetal-switches which operates pneumatic valves for example.

There are various technical challenges to do it and the operation will be painfully slow due to the small amount light charging the chemicals to get the population inversion.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.

Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:05 pm

Dilandu
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Joat42 wrote:Use the reflected light to trigger chemical light amplification which in turn is used to heat bimetal-switches which operates pneumatic valves for example.

There are various technical challenges to do it and the operation will be painfully slow due to the small amount light charging the chemicals to get the population inversion.


Hm! Ingenious solution! I was thinking about chemical ways too, but chemistry is not my strong point of knowledge.

But I must agree with you; the process would be far too slow to work for a falling bomb.

P.S. We could increase the amount of light, it we turn bomb into beam-rider, moving in airship searchlight beam.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:45 pm

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Dilandu wrote:The only system that I currently could imagine is to encode the pulse by the rapid change in controlling wire pullout speed. I.e. the control wire unwinds off the roll onboard the bomb, and immediately rewinds on the powered windlass onboard the airship. Some kind of mechanical regulating device made the cable tension more or less constant. Now, to transmit the "pulse" operator onboard the airship used mechanical system to quickly increase the cable tension, thus actuating the mechanical stepping switch onboard the bomb. Each "pulse" moved the switch one step forward, opening and closing the pneumatic relays, corresponding with the switch arm position.

P.S. Frankly, I doubt that it would work...


Not possible--all that wire trailing behind the bomb will have far too much inertia to play any such games.
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:58 pm

Loren Pechtel
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Dilandu wrote:Nah, seems the optimal idea is just to ask for volunteers ready to pilot the bomb toward the target and jump on parashute at last moment before impact (with some kind of ejection seat, maybe)

Of course, they would probably be captured by enemy, so if the next war woukd be as unpleasant as previous jihad... you know, just drop the ejection. Let the pilot guide the bomb till impact. Cynical, of course, but lets not forget, that kamikaze tactis were designed to SAVE lives in the situation of superior US defenses (better to deliberately sacrifice one pilot, than almost inevitably the whole crew)


There's no need for an ejection seat. The purpose of an ejection seat is to get the person clear of the bits of the plane quickly, especially the tail. In this case, though, you just have the guide sit on the back of the bomb. They just push off.

The big problem with this approach is that they have to let go quite some distance away or they'll die in the boom and success means they're parachuting down over the enemy formation and almost certainly get captured. You might be able to give them scuba gear but that has limited endurance.
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:25 pm

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SilverbladeTE wrote:You know....wyverns are quite intelligent from what's said in the novels, more zo than pigeons.


But...no.
Even if you could train 'em, that's immoral, far as I'm concerned.
Enough animals get.killed by Human cruelty and stupidity.


Hey, that could actually be made to work reasonably well without killing the wyverns. Using a human guide is a big problem because they parachute onto the enemy fleet, but if you use a wyvern it's trained to fly up and away when a door opens (a propeller in the airflow, it unscrews something and the door springs open. You set how many turns until it pops based on the drop altitude.) The wyvern is going away from the blast rather than falling towards it, they can safely ride the bomb a lot lower than a human and thus will be a lot more accurate.

There's also no danger of a wyvern being captured and made to talk.
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