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Dirigible **guided** bombing

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Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:21 am

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The thread considering dirigible gunships dismissed the idea of guided weapons because seeker heads are electric.

Or are they?

Consider the pigeon-guided bomb. You take a pigeon and train it to peck an image of your target. The bomb has optics that project an image on a screen in front of the pigeon, it pecks the ship, if the ship is off center the control surfaces of the bomb are adjusted.

Now, they were envisioning electrical controls but I could see them being built without--you have a supply of high pressure gas, when pecked the screen moves, permitting a small amount of this to pass through, this is amplified (same idea--the pressure opens a bigger valve) and that moves the guidance fins.

The real thing never moved beyond the lab but no showstoppers were found.
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:59 am

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It is theoretically possible, but why bother? Airship by definition could drop bombs quite precisely, just by the ability to control its movements.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:17 am

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Loren Pechtel wrote:
Now, they were envisioning electrical controls but I could see them being built without--you have a supply of high pressure gas, when pecked the screen moves, permitting a small amount of this to pass through, this is amplified (same idea--the pressure opens a bigger valve) and that moves the guidance fins.



Its called the pneumatic relay.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by SilverbladeTE   » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:17 am

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Why not use steel silk thread to spool out behind a bomb, designed to adjust flaps on the weapon, kinda of like a "Fritz X" bomb of WW2?
Short range of connection, difficult...but some adjustment might be possible?
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Joat42   » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:04 am

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SilverbladeTE wrote:Why not use steel silk thread to spool out behind a bomb, designed to adjust flaps on the weapon, kinda of like a "Fritz X" bomb of WW2?
Short range of connection, difficult...but some adjustment might be possible?

I foresee some difficulties to steer it while it's free-falling.

You could theoretically use 2 pairs of threads where the slip-difference between treads in a pair adjusts the flaps/fins but that would be iffy since the longer the threads spool out they will get affected by wind not to mention the farther the lateral distance is from the point of release it will get increasingly difficult to steer.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.

Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:09 am

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SilverbladeTE wrote:Why not use steel silk thread to spool out behind a bomb, designed to adjust flaps on the weapon, kinda of like a "Fritz X" bomb of WW2?
Short range of connection, difficult...but some adjustment might be possible?


Because the bomb is not exactly stable in flight. It would be almost impossible to maintain the constant tension on strings and avoid sudden pulls. And if you use more than one cable, they could tangle together pretty well.

The only thing I nanage to suggest that MIGHT work us some kind of pneumatic stepping switch, to which the string somehow send impulses encoded in a series of pulls. I.e. to steer right you apply brake to the string one time, to steer keft - two times in short sucession, ect.

I doubt it would work very well, but... better than nothing, probably.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:12 am

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Joat42 wrote:
You could theoretically use 2 pairs of threads where the slip-difference between treads in a pair adjusts the flaps/fins but that would be iffy since the longer the threads spool out they will get affected by wind not to mention the farther the lateral distance is from the point of release it will get increasingly difficult to steer.


Hm.... what if we use the difference of the speed of un-winding the wire from the roll, like on Brennan torpedo?
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Joat42   » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:28 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
Joat42 wrote:
You could theoretically use 2 pairs of threads where the slip-difference between treads in a pair adjusts the flaps/fins but that would be iffy since the longer the threads spool out they will get affected by wind not to mention the farther the lateral distance is from the point of release it will get increasingly difficult to steer.


Hm.... what if we use the difference of the speed of un-winding the wire from the roll, like on Brennan torpedo?

The Brennan torpedo only moves at a constant depth which made that method of control feasible since it only involved one plane of movement. Dropping bombs involves 2 planes of movement plus that the point of release is also moving which I think makes the whole concept very difficult to implement.

I say it is probably easier to use pigeon guided bombs instead...

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.

Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by Dilandu   » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:33 pm

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Well, basically, what we need is some way to mechanically transmit a "pulse" onboard the bomb. It would not be too hard to design a mechanical stepping switch, which would transform the number of pulses received in a row into a steering commands by opening and closing corresponding pneumatic relays. I.e., for example, one "pulse" - "up" command, two "pulses" in a row - "down" command, three - "left" and four - "right".

The question is, how exactly to transmit any kind of such "pulse" onboard the flying bomb?

The only system that I currently could imagine is to encode the pulse by the rapid change in controlling wire pullout speed. I.e. the control wire unwinds off the roll onboard the bomb, and immediately rewinds on the powered windlass onboard the airship. Some kind of mechanical regulating device made the cable tension more or less constant. Now, to transmit the "pulse" operator onboard the airship used mechanical system to quickly increase the cable tension, thus actuating the mechanical stepping switch onboard the bomb. Each "pulse" moved the switch one step forward, opening and closing the pneumatic relays, corresponding with the switch arm position.

P.S. Frankly, I doubt that it would work...
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Dirigible **guided** bombing
Post by SilverbladeTE   » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:44 pm

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You know....wyverns are quite intelligent from what's said in the novels, more zo than pigeons.


But...no.
Even if you could train 'em, that's immoral, far as I'm concerned.
Enough animals get.killed by Human cruelty and stupidity.


I wonder if Federation tech came up with a system both sensitive enough to detect a ship's magnetic field far.enough and craftable by Safehold tech....
Hm?


Anyway, several mine types can function without electricity
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