New Books

Asmiov's Foundation series didn't get finished either. We never did find out what Daneel was up to with the little Spacer girl. Definite cliffhanger ending.

Looking forward to Safehold 11.

W

Wait what.. 3-4 books to finish Safehold?

Does he mean finish this 'arc' of it.. and then the next arc with the space/Gbaba starts up... or total finish?

Weber said that there would be no Gbaba in Safehold. (of course that was years ago now) So as long as they aren't digging up crashed ufos at the north pole or something like that, the series is going to end after reaching space. I am one of those readers who think that there's a lot for the Safeholdians to do after and around that time, without dropping the exact situation the Dhak novels spelled out for the suddenly-outdated people of Earth. Ships are outdated when compared to the raikurai and the skimmers, but that doesn't mean that they have enough of the advanced stuff to get the fishing done. Or search all that wreckage they've been putting in the oceans for the past few years. With the Stone of Schuler looking like a rock, there's a lot of inconspicuous things on a wrecked warship of the gentry to go through. In sci-fi people always handwave the part where building the spaceships means filling up the pantry- or the biodomes of the (other planet name)-base.

MrZero wrote:Weber said that there would be no Gbaba in Safehold. (of course that was years ago now) So as long as they aren't digging up crashed ufos at the north pole or something like that, the series is going to end after reaching space. I am one of those readers who think that there's a lot for the Safeholdians to do after and around that time, without dropping the exact situation the Dhak novels spelled out for the suddenly-outdated people of Earth. Ships are outdated when compared to the raikurai and the skimmers, but that doesn't mean that they have enough of the advanced stuff to get the fishing done. Or search all that wreckage they've been putting in the oceans for the past few years. With the Stone of Schuler looking like a rock, there's a lot of inconspicuous things on a wrecked warship of the gentry to go through. In sci-fi people always handwave the part where building the spaceships means filling up the pantry- or the biodomes of the (other planet name)-base.

Once the Safeholdians get into space, the story that makes Safehold a unique series is basically over. That is, the continuing story would then turn into some kind of 'The Honor of Safehold' space battles and politics series, so why would RFC want to write it? He could write a very similar story set in the Honorverse, and earn more for it...

It is possible there's another tech cache hidden away, maybe on that big moon that keeps irritating me and which I went on about so much I managed to also irritate RFC. If Safeholdians do get into space, the Langhorne Plan has failed, so someone other than Shan-Wei might have stashed a 'Gbaba for Dummies' and 'Mighty Space Warships For Beginners' in a place the Safeholdians could reasonably get to in a fairly primitive spaceship. Not a UFO at the North Pole, more a Big Obelisk on the Moon.

Bluesqueak wrote:

MrZero wrote:Weber said that there would be no Gbaba in Safehold. (of course that was years ago now) So as long as they aren't digging up crashed ufos at the north pole or something like that, the series is going to end after reaching space. I am one of those readers who think that there's a lot for the Safeholdians to do after and around that time, without dropping the exact situation the Dhak novels spelled out for the suddenly-outdated people of Earth. Ships are outdated when compared to the raikurai and the skimmers, but that doesn't mean that they have enough of the advanced stuff to get the fishing done. Or search all that wreckage they've been putting in the oceans for the past few years. With the Stone of Schuler looking like a rock, there's a lot of inconspicuous things on a wrecked warship of the gentry to go through. In sci-fi people always handwave the part where building the spaceships means filling up the pantry- or the biodomes of the (other planet name)-base.

Once the Safeholdians get into space, the story that makes Safehold a unique series is basically over. That is, the continuing story would then turn into some kind of 'The Honor of Safehold' space battles and politics series, so why would RFC want to write it? He could write a very similar story set in the Honorverse, and earn more for it...

It is possible there's another tech cache hidden away, maybe on that big moon that keeps irritating me and which I went on about so much I managed to also irritate RFC. If Safeholdians do get into space, the Langhorne Plan has failed, so someone other than Shan-Wei might have stashed a 'Gbaba for Dummies' and 'Mighty Space Warships For Beginners' in a place the Safeholdians could reasonably get to in a fairly primitive spaceship. Not a UFO at the North Pole, more a Big Obelisk on the Moon.

I know you are being alliterative, but wouldn't Owl's cave and Nimue already be/hold said primers? Owl has a small industrial fab unit and the prints to use it. Obviously THAT fab cannot build a spaceship... but it can build the parts necessary to build a medium fab, the medium fab can build the parts of a large fab, ..... and the orbital Industral fab installation can build a last gen Human Battleship. between their knowledge and the fab (and nano-learning), once the Rakauri and the religious shenanigans are dealt with, humanity can go from 1880 tech levels straight to the day the ARK fleet left.

While that is a cool thought, there is nothing to the story. Humanity, knowing the threat in the stars, shifts to keep quiet and build a bigger stick mode. Builds more, better ships. then more, better ships.. then.... finally they shift to Avenging Angel mode and roll over the Gabba with such overwelming force and speed, the phrase "Shock and Awe" will be an insufficient descriptor.

Theemile wrote:

Bluesqueak wrote:
*Snip*

It is possible there's another tech cache hidden away, maybe on that big moon that keeps irritating me and which I went on about so much I managed to also irritate RFC. If Safeholdians do get into space, the Langhorne Plan has failed, so someone other than Shan-Wei might have stashed a 'Gbaba for Dummies' and 'Mighty Space Warships For Beginners' in a place the Safeholdians could reasonably get to in a fairly primitive spaceship. Not a UFO at the North Pole, more a Big Obelisk on the Moon.

I know you are being alliterative, but wouldn't Owl's cave and Nimue already be/hold said primers? Owl has a small industrial fab unit and the prints to use it. Obviously THAT fab cannot build a spaceship... but it can build the parts necessary to build a medium fab, the medium fab can build the parts of a large fab, ..... and the orbital Industral fab installation can build a last gen Human Battleship. between their knowledge and the fab (and nano-learning), once the Rakauri and the religious shenanigans are dealt with, humanity can go from 1880 tech levels straight to the day the ARK fleet left.

While that is a cool thought, there is nothing to the story. Humanity, knowing the threat in the stars, shifts to keep quiet and build a bigger stick mode. Builds more, better ships. then more, better ships.. then.... finally they shift to Avenging Angel mode and roll over the Gabba with such overwelming force and speed, the phrase "Shock and Awe" will be an insufficient descriptor.

Yes, OWL has an entire library on file. Described as a major Core World library - but last time I looked, most major libraries don't include blueprints for current battleships. Historical battleships, yes. Likewise, there's been a couple of occasions where Nahrman and OWL have needed the equivalent of years of research to build something that the Federation already knew how to do.

It's not that the Safeholdians can't build spaceships once the prohibitions are finally broken. It's that if someone in the Command Crew had a Duchairn style revelation about Chihiro or Langhorne - and didn't know about Shan-Wei's Second Arrow - the really obvious place to hide something that will only come into play if the Langhorne Plan has failed is that large single moon. Someone conversant with Terran history would know it's the first place a spacefaring Safehold would head for. And at that point Safehold would still be safe from the Gbaba, because the Gbaba leave you alone until you trespass in what they see as their territory.

I cheerfully admit it's the sort of thing that would only become important artistically if something happens to Nimue's Cave. Which, in one version of the legend, Merlin gets trapped in. So it certainly isn't impossible that RFC was thinking about something happening to it (and the Federation goodies) when he had Merlin name it.

As I said, something about that moon irritates me. It could easily be that I'm subconsciously associating it with the 'Moon' in the Dahak series, or that Safehold having a big single Moon is simply an authorial joke about having to use the Safehold idea for the third book in the Dahak series. Or, in a largely seagoing series about a seagoing culture, RFC wanted a big single moon so that Safehold's tides are essentially the same as Earth's.

All of the above is possible. But it really is a great big flashy sign in the sky, saying: 'Planning on some space travel? Visit me first!' And what a great place to hide stuff if you don't want Langhorne's plan to fail, but want a back-up in case it has. Especially if you've semi-disabled the OBS so that it now only fires on stuff that breaches a perimeter...

Bluesqueak wrote:<snip>

All of the above is possible. But it really is a great big flashy sign in the sky, saying: 'Planning on some space travel? Visit me first!' And what a great place to hide stuff if you don't want Langhorne's plan to fail, but want a back-up in case it has. Especially if you've semi-disabled the OBS so that it now only fires on stuff that breaches a perimeter...

You mean like find/blast a big hole in the dark side, drop in a couple ships , cover up with dirt?

Actually, It would make more sense if the Ark fleet, when being sent on it's solar death dive, executed a hidden command which altered it's trajectory, fired a ECM drone into the sun, while turning on it's stealth fields, and sling-shoting into a commetary orbit. The ships would slowly change their orbit so they were orbiting several dozen AU past the last planet and re-enter stasis.

That way Langhorn could observe their deaths, yet the ships would still survive - and the capability was well within the capability of the military faction.

Theemile wrote:

Bluesqueak wrote:<snip>

All of the above is possible. But it really is a great big flashy sign in the sky, saying: 'Planning on some space travel? Visit me first!' And what a great place to hide stuff if you don't want Langhorne's plan to fail, but want a back-up in case it has. Especially if you've semi-disabled the OBS so that it now only fires on stuff that breaches a perimeter...

You mean like find/blast a big hole in the dark side, drop in a couple ships , cover up with dirt?

Actually, It would make more sense if the Ark fleet, when being sent on it's solar death dive, executed a hidden command which altered it's trajectory, fired a ECM drone into the sun, while turning on it's stealth fields, and sling-shoting into a commetary orbit. The ships would slowly change their orbit so they were orbiting several dozen AU past the last planet and re-enter stasis.

That way Langhorn could observe their deaths, yet the ships would still survive - and the capability was well within the capability of the military faction.

Yes, it would've made a lot of sense. In fact, the survival of the ships was the original plan. Once Langhorne took charge, he wanted those ships gone, would probably have been keeping a very sharp eye out for such deception moves - and hasn't RFC flat-out said that the ships are gone?

If someone in the Command Crew did a Duchairn, we're talking during the War. The ships will no longer be available, so you are looking at a tech cache - not a big hole full of handy ships. If they want the Langhorne Plan to succeed and the tech cache is on Safehold, there's the danger it will be accidentally found - and then probably destroyed by the Inquisition. Or worse, cause the failure of the Langhorne Plan.

For a paranoid member of the Command Crew (and they all had fairly severe PTSD) the moon (if they could hide, um, hiding stuff under the cover of some other task) sounds good. No danger of orbital decay, Langhorne's plan would definitely have utterly failed if Safeholdians turn up there, it won't be accidentally found by the Inquisition and isn't going to be blown to teeny tiny pieces by the OBS.

I agree that stuff could also have been sneaked into a cometary orbit. But I think a paranoid member of the Command Crew would stash the Emergency Gbaba Survival Pack as close as they could get away with in as safe a place as possible.

Of course, it might be busily imitating an asteroid...

Bluesqueak wrote:
I agree that stuff could also have been sneaked into a cometary orbit. But I think a paranoid member of the Command Crew would stash the Emergency Gbaba Survival Pack as close as they could get away with in as safe a place as possible.

Of course, it might be busily imitating an asteroid...

The OBS was built using something, and the asteroid belt (assuming Safehold had/has one) would be a good source of raw materials that's obtainable without dealing with pesky gravity wells. I don't know how safe hiding anything among the asteroids would be.

(Me, I'd have recycled the colony ships into raw materials for the OBS instead of shoving them into the sun. But I can see Langhorne being worried about the chance someone could sneak unauthorized tech off a ship under the cover of "disassembly".)

The problem with a hypothetical tech stash in a cometary orbit is that it's not necessarily available once Safehold gets back into space. Halley's Comet has a nice short orbital period of 75 years or so; if the tech stash were placed in a similar orbit you could easily be looking at decades between "first Safeholdian in space" and "here's what you need to know about the Gbaba". That's too long for safety.

If there's another tech stash, I'm betting on the moon simply because on the scale of a solar system it's basically staying in one place, which makes it much easier to find when the time is right.

Julia Minor wrote:

Bluesqueak wrote:
I agree that stuff could also have been sneaked into a cometary orbit. But I think a paranoid member of the Command Crew would stash the Emergency Gbaba Survival Pack as close as they could get away with in as safe a place as possible.

Of course, it might be busily imitating an asteroid...

The OBS was built using something, and the asteroid belt (assuming Safehold had/has one) would be a good source of raw materials that's obtainable without dealing with pesky gravity wells. I don't know how safe hiding anything among the asteroids would be.

(Me, I'd have recycled the colony ships into raw materials for the OBS instead of shoving them into the sun. But I can see Langhorne being worried about the chance someone could sneak unauthorized tech off a ship under the cover of "disassembly".)

The problem with a hypothetical tech stash in a cometary orbit is that it's not necessarily available once Safehold gets back into space. Halley's Comet has a nice short orbital period of 75 years or so; if the tech stash were placed in a similar orbit you could easily be looking at decades between "first Safeholdian in space" and "here's what you need to know about the Gbaba". That's too long for safety.

If there's another tech stash, I'm betting on the moon simply because on the scale of a solar system it's basically staying in one place, which makes it much easier to find when the time is right.

If something was stashed elsewhere in the system, whoever did it would have intended to leave a breadcrumb trail of some kind. Even if it's on the moon, if there isn't at least a sign pointed at a rabbit hole with an arrow and the word Albuquerque written on it, no one is going to find it. Now it can't be too easy to find, or Langhorn and Crew will have found it. It can't be too hard or no one will ever discover the ships until they already have a fleet and have completed a comprehensive survey of every inch of the system.

Perhaps a hidden file will open up if Nimue leaves the atmosophere. Maybe sensors are focused on Safehold and will try to trip a beacon if they detect e-mag signals or a chemical ship breaking the atmosophere. Or... the hidden details, intended to last the ages, were destroyed when the Cathedral of St. bla-bla burned in the War of the Fallen.