***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Trials

Hardcover, pg. 481: During a discussion of the current Siddarmarkian situation;"...Have you had the opportunity to review Owl and Nahrmahn's latest projections Merlin?"

'I'm afraid not," Merlin admitted. "I've been focused on the Republic not North Harchong, I'm afraid."

"I figured." Cayleb's image shrugged. "We can cover a lot more ground now that we have so many people to delegate stuff too, but it does mean none of us can stay on top of everything as we used to."

'Forgive me, Your Majesty," owl said, "but I'm very much afraid that you couldn't 'stay on top of everything' the way you once did under any circumstances. In many ways, the Nahrmahn Plan is much more complex than managing the Jihad was."

Pg. 608, Rock point and Sarmouth discussing North Wind Blowing's brainstorm;

"Like I say, a logical model." Sarmouth shrugged. "personally, I don't think they have a chance in hell of pulling it off, but look at it this way-it plays perfectly into the Nahrman Plan. Just think of how the shipbuilding programs in Germany 'grew' Krupp! Of course, old Alfred couldn't hold a candle to our Ehdwyrd, but that wasn't his fault."

Pg. 618 Cayleb and Delthak discussing the sate of the Siddarmark economy;

"You're right," Delthak acknowledged finally. "That doesn't mean what we're worrying about isn't valid, but it does kind of put things into perspective, doesn't it?"

"Maybe. And maybe I'm just feeling a bit...frazzled at the moment. But the truth is, we're headed into the final stage of the first phase of the Nahrmahn Plan, one way or the other. and I think we'll just have to let the Republic take care of itself. It only has to hold together for another two years and then we're either golder or it doesn't matter for at least another seventy years."

Pg. 673, after Daivyn and Frahcheska's marriage, Cayleb and Sharleyan talking in their chamber suite;

"Ina heartbeat," she told him softly. "In a single heartbeat." The hand stroking his hair touched his cheek, instead. " I won't say you've never pissed me off, because we both know better. But I wouldn't have missed you, or a single second of our lives together, for any imaginable price. And if, at the end of it all, the 'Archangels' come back and the 'Nahrmahn Plan' fails, not even that could make me change my mind. You gave me the chance to do something about all the lies, all the deceit. You and I, Cayleb- we changed the world, and it was worth every single thing it cost. But, even..."

Pg. 700, after the Siddarmark election, a discussion of it's implications, Delthak, Nahrmahn, Cayleb and Sharleyan;

"You're right," Nahrmahn agreed. "And, speaking of archangels that haven't turned up yet, Owl and I would like to show you what we've been working on with Paityr and Nynian to kick off the final phase of the Nahrmahn Plan." His avatar's smile was remarkably broad...and evil. "Somehow, I think the real Schueler's going to be spinning in his grave."

Pg. 715, discussion of the non-return on God's Day;

"So, I suppose it's time to initiate the second stage of the Nahrmahn Plan?" he said out loud. (Nahrmahn)

"You suppose correctly," Cayleb said, and he and Sharleyan both looked at Nahrmahn. "You and Owl are cleared for Operation Androcles."

Immediately following this last quote, we find it is March 916 and we are at the Cathedral of the Holy Archangel Schueler, City of Brohcamp, Episcopate of Schueler, The Temple Lands.

That is all the direct textev I found where the Nahrmahn Plan is mentioned. I know it's taken a while to get them all in to the forum as i thought it would be a good place to have the direct textev handy, since this was a big part of this post.

Hopefully, it'll help us figure out what RFC is up to.

W

ssl4000g wrote:Hardcover, pg. 481: During a discussion of the current Siddarmarkian situation;"...Have you had the opportunity to review Owl and Nahrmahn's latest projections Merlin?"

...

Hopefully, it'll help us figure out what RFC is up to.

W

thanks for that - helpful thought!

isaac_newton wrote:

ssl4000g wrote:Hardcover, pg. 481: During a discussion of the current Siddarmarkian situation;"...Have you had the opportunity to review Owl and Nahrmahn's latest projections Merlin?"

...

Hopefully, it'll help us figure out what RFC is up to.

W

thanks for that - helpful thought!

After grabbing all those quotes really makes it apparent that the Nahrmahn Plan is way more complex than the Jihad. Chomping at the bit for the next book.

No SSK in TFT as, someone pointed out, which leads to the question would Nynian do something without the IC knowing? Chapter 1 will be interesting. Now we can speculate more.

W

Theemile wrote:This is the reason the British went back to coal fired Dreadnoughts after experimenting with Oil designs, even though they knew the advantages of oil. In the end, It's all about strategic resources.

Shades of Rail advocates claiming that the US is old fashioned because our main line power is almost entirely Diesel, where as European and Japanese trains primarily use electric traction. There are reasons why North American Locomotive power might be behind the times, but that they lug around large diesel gensets is not one of them.

I believe that the difference is due to decisions made in the period shortly after WWII. Basically there were distinct advantages to getting rid of steam, but all of the countries involved were oil importers (the US was an oil exporter at the time).

Coal was readily available in western Europe, and burning it in a new stationary high pressure steam plant was more efficient than burning it on each locomotive as long as transmission distance were not too long, and you could get rid of all the infrastructure for collecting, treating and storing water along with ash pits to safely clean the fireboxes and in many cases the infrastructure for storing coal and fueling the locomotives.

Here the longer transmission distances and relatively cheaper, securely sourced diesel tilted the decision in favor of simply replacing the engines and building a new fueling infrastructure that used liquid fuels won out in most of North America.

ssl4000g wrote:..snip..
That is all the direct textev I found where the Nahrmahn Plan is mentioned. I know it's taken a while to get them all in to the forum as i thought it would be a good place to have the direct textev handy, since this was a big part of this post.

Hopefully, it'll help us figure out what RFC is up to.

W

What we all have to remember is that the Inner Circle's policy is not to lie and if the Testimony of Schueler that was left in the church after the visitation is the original version that was written before the war of the fallen, we can with a high degree of certainty establish that the visitation belongs to the Nahrmahn Plan.

The other possibility is that it is a correct accounting of what really happened, ie a testimony of Langhornes deviation from the original plan. If it is, we can at this point not determine who wrote it because it's entirely possible that Schueler arranged the visitation but it would also fit into to the Nahrmahn plan as we understand it.

What we can establish is that if the visitation is part of the Nahrmahn plan the Testimony will most certainly only contain the truth, but not the whole truth.

ssl4000g wrote:..snip..
That is all the direct textev I found where the Nahrmahn Plan is mentioned. I know it's taken a while to get them all in to the forum as i thought it would be a good place to have the direct textev handy, since this was a big part of this post.

Hopefully, it'll help us figure out what RFC is up to.

W

Joat42 wrote:What we all have to remember is that the Inner Circle's policy is not to lie and if the Testimony of Schueler that was left in the church after the visitation is the original version that was written before the war of the fallen, we can with a high degree of certainty establish that the visitation belongs to the Nahrmahn Plan.

The other possibility is that it is a correct accounting of what really happened, ie a testimony of Langhornes deviation from the original plan. If it is, we can at this point not determine who wrote it because it's entirely possible that Schueler arranged the visitation but it would also fit into to the Nahrmahn plan as we understand it.

What we can establish is that if the visitation is part of the Nahrmahn plan the Testimony will most certainly only contain the truth, but not the whole truth.

No. If the information is true, then Schueler directed the visitation. Anything else would skate around lying. If this was the Nahrmahn's Plan, the IC just lied to the viewers that Schueler actually was present. They affirm that the archangels are truly divine and can return. That just doesn't ring true about the IC.

It rings more true for a group started by Schueler, well at least coopted by him. I think the SSK are involved and they had some tech available to them.

PeterZ wrote:No. If the information is true, then Schueler directed the visitation. Anything else would skate around lying. If this was the Nahrmahn's Plan, the IC just lied to the viewers that Schueler actually was present. They affirm that the archangels are truly divine and can return. That just doesn't ring true about the IC.

The IC has skated around the truth on many occasions but they never outright lied. And there is not one lie in what the image of Schueler told the congregation either, and if the image of Schueler is part of the plan I would call it a misdirection.

PeterZ wrote:It rings more true for a group started by Schueler, well at least coopted by him. I think the SSK are involved and they had some tech available to them.

There is zero evidence for that, especially in light of how Aivah described how the SSK was founded plus what the Key contained and what Paityr told the IC how the Key ended up in the Wylsynn-family.

PeterZ wrote:No. If the information is true, then Schueler directed the visitation. Anything else would skate around lying. If this was the Nahrmahn's Plan, the IC just lied to the viewers that Schueler actually was present. They affirm that the archangels are truly divine and can return. That just doesn't ring true about the IC.

Joat42 wrote:The IC has skated around the truth on many occasions but they never outright lied. And there is not one lie in what the image of Schueler told the congregation either, and if the image of Schueler is part of the plan I would call it a misdirection.

By using the false image of Schueler, they are indeed lying. Schueler never said what the false image asserted. It doesn't matter if they information is true or not. The vehicle is false. That alone will pollute the message as a tool of the Shan-wei of old once that falsity was revealed.

PeterZ wrote:It rings more true for a group started by Schueler, well at least coopted by him. I think the SSK are involved and they had some tech available to them.

Joat42 wrote:There is zero evidence for that, especially in light of how Aivah described how the SSK was founded plus what the Key contained and what Paityr told the IC how the Key ended up in the Wylsynn-family.

Yup. So we know that Schueler wanted to influence the future. We know that Khody did inspire followers. We also know that Khody was very tight with Schueler. We know that the SSK had inside information prior to the destruction of the original abbey to survive.

It makes sense that there was some sympathetic individuals within the post War Against the Fallen leadership. Those sympathies could have been shared by Schueler himself as time progressed. However Khody died, his death may have inspired Schueler to accept Khody's conclusions. If so, then Schueler's demonstrated integrity would have forced him into acting. It makes sense that he used several arrows, especially since one was already forged with a passionate purpose; a purpose of continuing Khody's legacy. With his descendants trying to shape the CoGA from within and the SSK acting as an external agent directing the CoGA, Schueler has a solid set of tools to achieve his goals. Whatever they are.

One thing to keep in mind with all this speculation about the SSK working with Schueler is the little fact that the Mother Superior of SSK is married to one Merlin, is a member if the IC, and was blindsided by the truth when introduced to it. If she had ANY knowledge about a Schueler return/reveal/exposé, I am sure she would have given him a heads up since they would be working towards similar and allied purposes.

PlaysWithBees wrote:One thing to keep in mind with all this speculation about the SSK working with Schueler is the little fact that the Mother Superior of SSK is married to one Merlin, is a member if the IC, and was blindsided by the truth when introduced to it. If she had ANY knowledge about a Schueler return/reveal/exposé, I am sure she would have given him a heads up since they would be working towards similar and allied purposes.

My reading of Nynian is that she understands 'need to know' in her very bones. Look at the way she kept the evidence of the Sisters of St Khody secret from the Circle, even when she was using the resources of the Sisters to rescue Circle wives and children.

If she thinks Merlin doesn't have need-to-know, or may need to truthfully say he didn't know, she wouldn't tell him. Husband or not.