KODT in Honorverse

Kaptenen wrote:That is not a accent mark, it is a letter, we have the
letters Å,Ä and Ö and it sounds quite different. Why are
you yanks so indifferent?

Kaptenen wrote:That is not a accent mark, it is a letter, we have the letters Å,Ä and Ö and it sounds quite different. Why are you yanks so indifferent?

dvdscar wrote:Technically, the double-dot mark over the o (or any other vowel character) is called an umlaut. It marks a change in pronunciation over the standard pronunciation of the vowel. The pronunciation change may vary from language to language, but it's fairly common in German, and the way my voice teacher in college explained its effect in German was you shape your mouth as if you're going to pronounce the regular vowel, then you pronounce a long E sound. Trust me, it does sound different. Modern German spelling has mostly done away with it, replacing it with a trailing e. So ö now = oe, ä now = ae, etc. Not sure about how other languages would reflect it.

The MS keyboard shortcut is Ctrl+Shift+colon key then press the desired vowel.

1632 authors use it a lot.

tlb wrote:

Kaptenen wrote:That is not a accent mark, it is a letter, we have the letters Å,Ä and Ö and it sounds quite different. Why are you yanks so indifferent?

dvdscar wrote:Technically, the double-dot mark over the o (or any other vowel character) is called an umlaut. It marks a change in pronunciation over the standard pronunciation of the vowel. The pronunciation change may vary from language to language, but it's fairly common in German, and the way my voice teacher in college explained its effect in German was you shape your mouth as if you're going to pronounce the regular vowel, then you pronounce a long E sound. Trust me, it does sound different. Modern German spelling has mostly done away with it, replacing it with a trailing e. So ö now = oe, ä now = ae, etc. Not sure about how other languages would reflect it.

The MS keyboard shortcut is Ctrl+Shift+colon key then press the desired vowel.

1632 authors use it a lot.

As the Wikipedia article said whether it is considered a separate letter or a letter plus a diacritic mark depends on the language. I see no reason to doubt that in Kaptenen's language it is considered a separate letter. Note that the Council for German Orthography considers Ä/ä, Ö/ö, Ü/ü, and ẞ/ß to be distinct letters.

I think that German stands alone in allowing an alternative (ö = oe, ä = ae), but I am interesting in hearing what experts in other languages say.

Hornblower wrote:The whole problem arouse because the asc/ansi code was developed in the US by people who obviously knew no other language than English.

Hornblower wrote:

tlb wrote: quote="Kaptenen"That is not a accent mark, it is a letter, we have the letters Å,Ä and Ö and it sounds quite different. Why are you yanks so indifferent?

dvdscar wrote:Technically, the double-dot mark over the o (or any other vowel character) is called an umlaut. It marks a change in pronunciation over the standard pronunciation of the vowel. The pronunciation change may vary from language to language, but it's fairly common in German, and the way my voice teacher in college explained its effect in German was you shape your mouth as if you're going to pronounce the regular vowel, then you pronounce a long E sound. Trust me, it does sound different. Modern German spelling has mostly done away with it, replacing it with a trailing e. So ö now = oe, ä now = ae, etc. Not sure about how other languages would reflect it.

The MS keyboard shortcut is Ctrl+Shift+colon key then press the desired vowel.

1632 authors use it a lot.

As the Wikipedia article said whether it is considered a separate letter or a letter plus a diacritic mark depends on the language. I see no reason to doubt that in Kaptenen's language it is considered a separate letter. Note that the Council for German Orthography considers Ä/ä, Ö/ö, Ü/ü, and ẞ/ß to be distinct letters.

I think that German stands alone in allowing an alternative (ö = oe, ä = ae), but I am interesting in hearing what experts in other languages say. /quote

The German "Umlaut" is never spelled oe or ae in a German text. The solution is frequently used in computer files, because many operating systems and program languages have problems with these letters. You also have to use this solution in your email address if you have a name with these letters.

The sorting order is actually different in German and Swedish, because in Swedish they really separate letters at the end of the alphabet but in German they are sorted with the "main" letter (a or e).

The whole problem arouse because the asc/ansi code was developed in the US by people who obviously knew no other language than English.

Keith_w wrote:That's probable why it's called American Standard Code for Information Interchange instead of International Code.

On my Surface's on screen keyboard, if you hold a letter down it shows many? most? all? of the accented letters available. For example aáaäàâãæå.

tlb wrote:
My first job was with a Honeywell computer using a GE designed operating system that had a 6-bit character set (by eliminating lowercase letters) in a 36-bit word. They eventually changed to 9-bit characters by dividing the word into 4 characters instead of the previous 6.

tlb wrote:My first job was with a Honeywell computer using a GE designed operating system that had a 6-bit character set (by eliminating lowercase letters) in a 36-bit word. They eventually changed to 9-bit characters by dividing the word into 4 characters instead of the previous 6.

Fox2! wrote:Just one more reason to hate GECOS. Besides 427M.

tlb wrote:

Hornblower wrote:The whole problem arouse because the asc/ansi code was developed in the US by people who obviously knew no other language than English.

That was a feature, rather than a problem; because the idea was to develop a 7-bit alphabet set for the Teletype. It then became a problem when others tried to shoehorn their alphabet into 7-bits. It appears that the German language was able to accommodate itself with minimal effort. Now that we are not as limited in digital space the problems have been solved by Unicode.

My first job was with a Honeywell computer using a GE designed operating system that had a 6-bit character set (by eliminating lowercase letters) in a 36-bit word. They eventually changed to 9-bit characters by dividing the word into 4 characters instead of the previous 6.

tlb wrote:

Kaptenen wrote:That is not a accent mark, it is a letter, we have the letters Å,Ä and Ö and it sounds quite different. Why are you yanks so indifferent?

dvdscar wrote:Technically, the double-dot mark over the o (or any other vowel character) is called an umlaut. It marks a change in pronunciation over the standard pronunciation of the vowel. The pronunciation change may vary from language to language, but it's fairly common in German, and the way my voice teacher in college explained its effect in German was you shape your mouth as if you're going to pronounce the regular vowel, then you pronounce a long E sound. Trust me, it does sound different. Modern German spelling has mostly done away with it, replacing it with a trailing e. So ö now = oe, ä now = ae, etc. Not sure about how other languages would reflect it.

The MS keyboard shortcut is Ctrl+Shift+colon key then press the desired vowel.

1632 authors use it a lot.

As the Wikipedia article said whether it is considered a separate letter or a letter plus a diacritic mark depends on the language. I see no reason to doubt that in Kaptenen's language it is considered a separate letter. Note that the Council for German Orthography considers Ä/ä, Ö/ö, Ü/ü, and ẞ/ß to be distinct letters.

I think that German stands alone in allowing an alternative (ö = oe, ä = ae), but I am interesting in hearing what experts in other languages say.