How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the public?

Jonathan_S wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:
A proposed amendment to the Solarian Legue Constitution:


A well regulated System Defense Force being neccessary for a free solar system, the right of the member systems to have well regulated System Defense Forces shall not be infringed.

How is that a change?

Even under the old constitution systems had to right to build SDFs and nobody infringed on that right (well not until the SLN started attacking it's own -- arguable attacking a system and its SDF could be seen as infringing).
Sure most system didn't bother to build significant SDFs because they thought they had better things to do with their funds. But their inalienable right still existed.

Sigs wrote:The SLN would be formed around a fleet train to support offensive operations along with light combatants (BC(P)/BC(L), CA's CL's and DD's along with some CLACs)
Their combat duties would include anti piracy and protecting merchant marine etc...

Every ember system would be obligated to create an SDF with a standard say .25-.5% of the system GDP minimum, and designate that only a portion of the SDF could be called into federal service at anyone time. If a system has a GDP that can support 100 SD(P)'s with appropriate light combatants at .5% GDP the SLN would be entitled to 25% of those ships in the event of an emergency. If a system wants to spend 2% of its GDP to build a fleet of 400 SD(P)'s they are welcomed to and only 25 of those would be expected in federal service at any one time, if on the otherhand the SDF decides to spend .5% of their GDP on a navy and build only 25 SD(P)'s and the rest is in fixed forts and missile pods,LACs and destroyers/cruisers then so be it they will still be expected to deploy the 25 SD(P)'s even if they are left with nothing at home and I would assume their neighbours would be very unhappy if they were to notice that the system government is doing the very bare minimum because that would mean they would expect their neighbours to help protect them or that the SLN will not take their ships because they don't have a defense force without them.

So for a League with 1,000 members with an average of 60 SD(P)'s per member we can potentially see the SLN having acess to 15,000 SD(P)'s in time of war. The SLN will be responsible for offensive operations while the SDF's would be responsible to potect their home systems and rotate the SD(P)'s from the front if they have the ships

A system that invests in a proper SDF can in times of war have a fleet of SD(P)'s to protect it's self acked up by fixed defences without waiting for the SLN to rescue them and without fear that their entire fleet would be stripped from home defence unless they build the bare minimum that the SLN expects and then they have noone to blame but themselvs.

Divide the League into sectors and each sector has an SLN fleet base associated with it, at any point in time 10% of the available SD(P)'s from that sector would be in service with the SLN to conduct exercises and work up training as well as drilling the fleet train. Those ships would answer to the SLN for the training but ultimately in peacetime they would fall under their home government.

tlb wrote: snip...
Since most member worlds do not have even one SD and it will take time to construct them to a design plan that has not been created; there will have to be a rather long transition time for each world to get its SDF up to the required minimum force level. It will take even longer if shipyards need certification to build the approved plan.
snip...

George J. Smith wrote:There are still thousands of SLN ships in service and in the reserve, parcelling them out to the various SL member systems would create a core of ships for their SDFs. Yes they are obsolete compared to the GA ships, but they are sufficient for system defence when the only people who may attack them would be other SL system members that have the same tech. Where those systems would get the warm bodies to crew the ships is another matter, ships currently in service may well be crewed but not necessarily by residents of all the systems members, ships in reserve have either ghost crews or none at all.

The GA is not interested in taking action against any of the SL member systems as long as those systems limit themselves purely to defence of their systems and shipping, therefore as far as system defence is concerned it doesn't matter that GA tech is much more advanced.

Sigs wrote:The problem is that the SLN has no experience with a central government that is also a democracy so they don't know if it will actually work. Then there is the problem that the majority of remaining members would be out the loop because of travel times to and from the capital. What I would consider is that the League may become business as usual in 10-30 years, because the GA is demanding a change in government and a genuine democracy but the formation and running of that democracy would be in the hands of the very people who would benefit from the return of the bureaucracy. Cant really expect the people that got you in the current mess to not take advantage and steer the government and the nation back to the original problem.

George J. Smith wrote:The GA is not interested in taking action against any of the SL member systems as long as those systems limit themselves purely to defence of their systems and shipping, therefore as far as system defence is concerned it doesn't matter that GA tech is much more advanced.

Eyal wrote:

George J. Smith wrote:The GA is not interested in taking action against any of the SL member systems as long as those systems limit themselves purely to defence of their systems and shipping, therefore as far as system defence is concerned it doesn't matter that GA tech is much more advanced.

I don't think the systems involved would rest easy making that assumption.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:
A proposed amendment to the Solarian Legue Constitution:


A well regulated System Defense Force being neccessary for a free solar system, the right of the member systems to have well regulated System Defense Forces shall not be infringed.

Jonathan_S wrote:How is that a change?

Even under the old constitution systems had to right to build SDFs and nobody infringed on that right (well not until the SLN started attacking it's own -- arguable attacking a system and its SDF could be seen as infringing).
Sure most system didn't bother to build significant SDFs because they thought they had better things to do with their funds. But their inalienable right still existed.

tlb wrote:I do not know about the economics, but what you described sounds like a good basis for discussion for the restructured League. I wonder about the need to have both a sufficient number of representatives in the Assembly approve and then also sufficient number of member worlds approve (by referendum or by government vote?); but if that is how the reformed constitution is written, then I hope they can make it work.

Since most member worlds do not have even one SD and it will take time to construct them to a design plan that has not been created; there will have to be a rather long transition time for each world to get its SDF up to the required minimum force level. It will take even longer if shipyards need certification to build the approved plan.

George J. Smith wrote:
There are still thousands of SLN ships in service and in the reserve, parcelling them out to the various SL member systems would create a core of ships for their SDFs. Yes they are obsolete compared to the GA ships, but they are sufficient for system defence when the only people who may attack them would be other SL system members that have the same tech. Where those systems would get the warm bodies to crew the ships is another matter, ships currently in service may well be crewed but not necessarily by residents of all the systems members, ships in reserve have either ghost crews or none at all.

The GA is not interested in taking action against any of the SL member systems as long as those systems limit themselves purely to defence of their systems and shipping, therefore as far as system defence is concerned it doesn't matter that GA tech is much more advanced.