How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the public?

kzt wrote:Well, consider what happens when the next president of Haven gets elected and decides they don't really love Manticore? And the evidence is there are a lot of people in that camp.

By that time the economy of the RHN would be significantly connected that most leaders would think quite hard before they shoot their economy in the head by separating from the GA. Plus you know the whole thing about being on a 600 year old hit list, at this point it is in the best interest for everyone to remain together because like it or not the Republic of Haven has quite a few new enemies and it is so much better if they had the RMN and the GSN as well as the BSDF in support rather than watch them all fall.


Just because the President wont serve another term doesn't mean that an endorsement from her wont make significant problems for any opposition candidates.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:
Since the GA has forbidden the SLN to continue antipiracy patrols, they have no need for their ships. They can be transferred to various SDFs whrre they can protect individual systems.

The GA might have forbidden the SLN from conducting antipiracy patrols on their own...under direct GA supervision might be a different question.

Relax wrote:Lets just say that those in power usually LOVE power and lust after it irregardless of what is best for the people or efficiency.

Lets just say that most authors are romantic at heart and love "happy" endings without touching reality.

Lets just say that 2 countries at war for 2++ decades becoming life long best friends forever is as realistic as a druggie in Seattle/Vancouver where drugs/needles are handed out by the government, going into drug rehab...

Yes, the hulls will be made in Manticore for political power reasons ASAP

With their domestic industry destroyed, with Graysons industry destroyed, with Beowulfs industry mostly destroyed and with some 40 systems within the SEM in desperate need of industrial assistance so that they can become net contributors to the SEM I'd say that their goal would be rebuilding their indsutry with slowly building hulls in Manticore rather than focusing on hulls to the detriment on everything else. There would be significant demand for warships from all corners of the galaxy in the coming years somehow I doubt that with several thousand independad verge systems plus an unknown at this time number of core/shell systems will all be satisfied by the RHN alone.

kzt wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Since the GA has forbidden the SLN to continue antipiracy patrols, they have no need for their ships. They can be transferred to various SDFs whrre they can protect individual systems.

Nah, not the SL's problem anymore.

It is if the GA kindly makes it the Leagues problem. For the League public to see the ugly truth that they have been avoiding for the last few hundred years and since the GA is demanding a democratic government in the League the voice of the people might matter this once.

Theemile wrote:
I wouldn't call the MAlign a "superpower"- they are more of a Rogue Nation-state, trying to destabilize other established states, international relations, and trade through terrorism, false flag operations, and asymmetric warfare.

The GA doesn't really know enough about them to determine whether they are a superpower or not... in fact the GA knows absolutely nothing of value to determining whether they are a superpower or not.


The MA could have 1 system or 100 systems. They could have SD(P)'s of their own or they could have a whole other capital ship class with capabilities far superior to the GA.

What they know is that the MA tried to manipulate one group to crush the other and then they probably would have swooped in for an easy kill, because why waste your fleet in a war with essentially the entire galaxy when no one knows about your existence and you can manipulate everyone else to hammer each other into the ground while you wait for the right moment to take over. They have had 600 years to plan this with the abilities to increase their population significantly faster than pretty much anyone else and the galaxy hasn't actually run out of habitable planets hey could have a nation that rivals the League in size for all anyone knows.

Sigs wrote:By that time the economy of the RHN would be significantly connected that most leaders would think quite hard before they shoot their economy in the head by separating from the GA. Plus you know the whole thing about being on a 600 year old hit list, at this point it is in the best interest for everyone to remain together because like it or not the Republic of Haven has quite a few new enemies and it is so much better if they had the RMN and the GSN as well as the BSDF in support rather than watch them all fall.


Just because the President wont serve another term doesn't mean that an endorsement from her wont make significant problems for any opposition candidates.

Sure. But they just start selling Mk23s and the rest of the RMN weapons suite to the SL. And the decoys and jammers to defeat them.

SL is much larger market. I think they will do OK with that.

Sigs wrote:It is if the GA kindly makes it the Leagues problem. For the League public to see the ugly truth that they have been avoiding for the last few hundred years and since the GA is demanding a democratic government in the League the voice of the people might matter this once.

Their answer is: We agreed that we wouldn't go there. We signed an agreement that we wouldn't. You wanted the tar baby, it's your tar baby. Though if you want to PAY us to do your work we can talk. We will want full immunity for any personnel involved for whatever actions they deem necessary.

kzt wrote:
Sure. But they just start selling Mk23s and the rest of the RMN weapons suite to the SL. And the decoys and jammers to defeat them.

SL is much larger market. I think they will do OK with that.

They could very well do that, problem is that if the SL goes after the SEM for what happened they will go after the Republic eventually. Only an idiot would look at the very very very short term potential benefit while ignoring that they just brought the League to their borders. Maybe the league will change or maybe they wont but if Haven does decide to do that they will be selling the SLN the ships that will be parked in Orbit around Haven demanding the Republics surrender not to long after. I mean the RMN crushed the SLN and demanded the Leagues surrender after destroying the industry of the Leagues Capital, all this was made possible because and correct me if I'm wrong, the Grand Fleet made an entrance in Sol? You know the Grand Fleet with at least 50% of the GF's SD(P)'s were made up by the RHN.

kzt wrote:

Sigs wrote:It is if the GA kindly makes it the Leagues problem. For the League public to see the ugly truth that they have been avoiding for the last few hundred years and since the GA is demanding a democratic government in the League the voice of the people might matter this once.

Their answer is: We agreed that we wouldn't go there. We signed an agreement that we wouldn't. You wanted the tar baby, it's your tar baby. Though if you want to PAY us to do your work we can talk. We will want full immunity for any personnel involved for whatever actions they deem necessary.

The GA is dictating the peace, what's more the transitional Leadership of the SL is at this point made up of somewhat decent people on both the Civilian and Military side. The Convention has to present a document that would be acceptable to all of the remaining League members and I doubt they will want to go back to how it was since how it was kind of contributed to their ultimate defeat. Those delegates from the remaining members will eventually have to answer to their own people at home who will finally be learning what really happened in the verge and protectorates for so long.


When the media is unleashed into the corps of the League and they view all of it's deep dark secrets people will demand action if for no other reason than to reconcile their image of themselves with what their nation really did with their blessing.


Plus there is also the major corporations which might lose a lot once the verge gains independence from FS but they will also know that those same verge systems represent a market massive growth potential over the next few decades. They will go back in because they wont want to surrender such opportunity to corporations from outside the League and they have to believe that the SEM and the GA will eventually allow return to business as usual in the Verge so they will want to get their foot in the door.


The League made the mess, the GA will clean it up one way or another but they have every right to demand assistance from the League and the League's member states will have to know it.

Sigs wrote:When the media is unleashed into the corps of the League and they view all of it's deep dark secrets people will demand action if for no other reason than to reconcile their image of themselves with what their nation really did with their blessing.

Your confidence in the media is charming. Not based on any evidence in Davids book's, but charming.