Grayson - We Shall Overcome

Nico wrote:Do remember that such a backlash had already occurred and that the great majority of Graysons reacted with revulsion and outrage against both the assassination attempt on Benjamin Mayhew and later on Honor. That reaction on both occasions can be seen as a pretty good indicator of the direction that popular opinion on Grayson would take in the year's to come.

tlb wrote:The backlash, such as it was, predated the alliance with Manticore and was mostly a personal reaction by cousin Jared against Benjamin's foreign education, which caused him to aid a Masadan fifth column. That resulted in an assassination attempt against both Honor and the Protector. Jared had inherited the position of Maccabeus from his father.

The only other assassination attempt on Honor was the nanotech controlled shooting on the bridge by Honor's aide; the faked hanging of Honor that aroused so much feeling was an execution, not an assassination.

Jonathan_S wrote:What about Burdette's attempt to have Honor killed?

Taking out her pinnace and sending attackers in to shoot the survivors (killing Reverend Hanks). I'd call that a 3rd assassination attempt...

tlb wrote:Quite right, sorry about that.

stewart wrote:By now, with (1) Honor on "leave of absence" from uniform and full-time Steadholder and Mommy, and (2) the Grayson treecat colony at 50-75 cats, Mueller, Burdette and company are likely being VERY circumspect in their public actions as they know (and all other Graysons know) that their emotional patterns are being read by any available 'cat within range. There would be at least 3 'cats present anytime the Keys are in chambers (Nimitz, Benjamin's guardian and the Chancellor's guardian).
The only "safe" place is within their own steadings.

tlb wrote:

stewart wrote:By now, with (1) Honor on "leave of absence" from uniform and full-time Steadholder and Mommy, and (2) the Grayson treecat colony at 50-75 cats, Mueller, Burdette and company are likely being VERY circumspect in their public actions as they know (and all other Graysons know) that their emotional patterns are being read by any available 'cat within range. There would be at least 3 'cats present anytime the Keys are in chambers (Nimitz, Benjamin's guardian and the Chancellor's guardian).
The only "safe" place is within their own steadings.

Since Honor executed Burdette (after her would-be assassin confessed everything) and Mueller was executed after the attack on the Protector and the Queen, I believe you must be referring to anyone who might think like "Mueller, Burdette and company".

stewart wrote:By now, with (1) Honor on "leave of absence" from uniform and full-time Steadholder and Mommy, and (2) the Grayson treecat colony at 50-75 cats, Mueller, Burdette and company are likely being VERY circumspect in their public actions as they know (and all other Graysons know) that their emotional patterns are being read by any available 'cat within range. There would be at least 3 'cats present anytime the Keys are in chambers (Nimitz, Benjamin's guardian and the Chancellor's guardian).
The only "safe" place is within their own steadings.

tlb wrote:Since Honor executed Burdette (after her would-be assassin confessed everything) and Mueller was executed after the attack on the Protector and the Queen, I believe you must be referring to anyone who might think like "Mueller, Burdette and company".

munroburton wrote:Steadings are inherited. Not sure about the new Burdette, but Mueller's son became the new Steadholder and tried to cause trouble when news of Honor's pregnancy leaked. Seemed to be a case of "his father's son".

cthia wrote:Does anyone know whether Honor's particular religious affiliation has been mentioned?

"It wasn't very difficult to guess, Your Grace," Telmachi replied. "Especially not in light of Dame Honor's stature on Grayson and the rather poisonous commentary of one of our less than scintillating examples of journalistic professionalism. Of course, the fact that she's neither Catholic nor a member of the Church of Humanity Unchained does leave both of us in rather a gray area where she's concerned."
"She may not be a daughter of Father Church," Sullivan said quietly, his eyes level, "but of my own experience, I can tell you she is most certainly a daughter of God. I'll be honest with you and admit that nothing would give me greater joy than to have her embrace Father Church, but this is one woman for whose soul I feel no concern at all."
"That accords well with my own impression of her," Telmachi said seriously. "I believe she's a Third Stellar?"
"She is. Which presents me with something of a problem, since the Third Stellars appear to have no organized hierarchy in the sense your Church or mine does."
"The Third Stellars are actually rather like I suppose the Church of Humanity might have turned out without a firmly established hierarchy," Telmachi said. "When the representatives of all their congregations meet for their General Convocation every three T-years, they elect a leadership for the Convocation, and also the membership of a Coordinating Committee to function between Convocations, but each congregation—and each individual member of each congregation—is personally responsible for his or her relationship with God. I'm on quite good terms with several of their clergy, and one of them compared their General Convocation to an exercise in herding treecats."

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:Does anyone know whether Honor's particular religious affiliation has been mentioned?

From At All Costs, chapter 28:

"It wasn't very difficult to guess, Your Grace," Telmachi replied. "Especially not in light of Dame Honor's stature on Grayson and the rather poisonous commentary of one of our less than scintillating examples of journalistic professionalism. Of course, the fact that she's neither Catholic nor a member of the Church of Humanity Unchained does leave both of us in rather a gray area where she's concerned."
"She may not be a daughter of Father Church," Sullivan said quietly, his eyes level, "but of my own experience, I can tell you she is most certainly a daughter of God. I'll be honest with you and admit that nothing would give me greater joy than to have her embrace Father Church, but this is one woman for whose soul I feel no concern at all."
"That accords well with my own impression of her," Telmachi said seriously. "I believe she's a Third Stellar?"
"She is. Which presents me with something of a problem, since the Third Stellars appear to have no organized hierarchy in the sense your Church or mine does."
"The Third Stellars are actually rather like I suppose the Church of Humanity might have turned out without a firmly established hierarchy," Telmachi said. "When the representatives of all their congregations meet for their General Convocation every three T-years, they elect a leadership for the Convocation, and also the membership of a Coordinating Committee to function between Convocations, but each congregation—and each individual member of each congregation—is personally responsible for his or her relationship with God. I'm on quite good terms with several of their clergy, and one of them compared their General Convocation to an exercise in herding treecats."

I was somewhat unhappy about the big buildup over Honor being in love with a married man and there was nothing that could be done; when the solution was simply to get White Haven's wedding vows changed. All that fuss for such a simple solution, which did not occur to people described as great strategic and tactical thinkers.

I thought there must be a law for monogamy, but then they could have married on Grayson and Manticore would have to recognize it.

munroburton wrote:
Steadings are inherited. Not sure about the new Burdette, but Mueller's son became the new Steadholder and tried to cause trouble when news of Honor's pregnancy leaked. Seemed to be a case of "his father's son".

cthia wrote:Of course, what manner of worship is Third Stellar? Why does it remind me of something on the order of Freemasons? A hole card up the author's sleeve, is it?

Flag in Exile wrote:On a personal level, she was here because she had learned to respect the Church and because it was so central to the lives of her people. She needed to share it, even at one remove, to understand them. And even if that hadn't been true, she found the solemn majesty of the Church's liturgy and music compellingly beautiful.
Honor had been raised in the Third Stellar Missionary Communion (Reformed), but her family, like most Sphinx yeomen, had always been low church. The Third Stellars emphasized each individual's direct, personal relationship with God, with a minimum of structure. The high church had become more formal over the last few T-centuries, but low church services tended to be quiet, introspective affairs, and Honor had been unprepared for the sheer pageantry of the Church of Humanity. She supposed Mother Helen, the priest who'd confirmed her so many years ago, would have sniffed at all the "unnecessary fol-de-rol." She'd certainly regarded the formalism of her own denomination's high churchmen with enough reservations! But Honor suspected even Mother Helen would admit the beauty of Grayson's liturgy, and no one could doubt the personal faith of the people who followed it.

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:Of course, what manner of worship is Third Stellar? Why does it remind me of something on the order of Freemasons? A hole card up the author's sleeve, is it?

Apparently some future form of Protestant Christianity.
There's a little more from Flag in Exile; but not much.

Flag in Exile wrote:On a personal level, she was here because she had learned to respect the Church and because it was so central to the lives of her people. She needed to share it, even at one remove, to understand them. And even if that hadn't been true, she found the solemn majesty of the Church's liturgy and music compellingly beautiful.
Honor had been raised in the Third Stellar Missionary Communion (Reformed), but her family, like most Sphinx yeomen, had always been low church. The Third Stellars emphasized each individual's direct, personal relationship with God, with a minimum of structure. The high church had become more formal over the last few T-centuries, but low church services tended to be quiet, introspective affairs, and Honor had been unprepared for the sheer pageantry of the Church of Humanity. She supposed Mother Helen, the priest who'd confirmed her so many years ago, would have sniffed at all the "unnecessary fol-de-rol." She'd certainly regarded the formalism of her own denomination's high churchmen with enough reservations! But Honor suspected even Mother Helen would admit the beauty of Grayson's liturgy, and no one could doubt the personal faith of the people who followed it.

So whatever Third Stellar Missionary Communion (Reformed) is it's further subdivided into a high and a low church. But as it's only mentioned, pretty much in passing, in two book RFC hasn't laid out its history so we don't know from which particular current branch(s) of Christianity it derives.