**Spoiler** The Key and other Federation Tech

Foremost in our TextEv of Terran Technology is Nimue's Cave and the products produced there for the IC. We assume that this is the largest block of tech on Safehold.

The Temple has the most visible block of tech and again we assume much is hidden under the Temple (like all the hikousen left over from the WAtF and such stuff.

The SoSK have the Khody's sword and the testimony.

The Schueler family (Wylsynns) have the Verifier and the Key.

The Orbital Weapon is has unknown ownership and we are back to assumptions. Probably Chihiro had the last control of the OBS when the SoSK's original Abbey was hit. Possibly the activation of the Key could allow Operational Control.

Remnants of Terran Federation were in the Monastary of St. Zherneau but these were not technology except the advanced materials.

There were a couple of hundred Adams & Eves that were like Knowles and his group that were dispersed to multiple locations. I tend to believe it is possible some others will show up.

So does anyone really think there aren't some other factions hidden somewhere waiting for the return. Either in cryo sleep, PICA or with an ancestral story like the Wylslnn Family.

Schueler's return and the testimony are, IMHO, another opening salvo in the continuation of the War Against The Fallen but for Shan-Wei's side.

Have I missed any TF Tech?

have to recheck but didn't Nynian say the abbey was destroyed after all the angels had gone.

which implies that even after chiro and scheluer had departed SOMEONE had enough control of the OBS to do a pinpoint strike on the abbey (well as pinpoint as you get with Kilo Kilos).

The War of the Fallen was partially fought with Servitors - ie robots. Presumably they had to be made somewhere with Federation tech. The Church had the Hamilcar and the Temple (which was built after the nuking). The late Commodore's forces had to have some high tech bases hidden somewhere after Armageddon Reef was reduced to house, repair and produce servitors for the war which followed. Was it just some stashed hardware, or was there an all up fab module somewhere? we do not know. Is anything left, we do not know.

Angels had skimmers - where did those go? Something had to build the Temple - where did it go? If it was all loaded on the Hamilcar and dropped into the sun, what old, decrepit angel took the time to fly dozens of skimmers and shuttles loaded with construction fabs up to the Hamilcar to remove them all from humanity's grasp? Chances are some of it is under the temple. But could it also be somewhere else?

And the Hamilcar (and the rest of the fleet); was it truly dumped into the sun? Could it (and other portions of the fleet) not have been parked in the Ort cloud and shut down. What about a cometary orbit, looking like it dove to the sun, but actually returning every thousand years or so?

Theemile wrote:And the Hamilcar (and the rest of the fleet); was it truly dumped into the sun? Could it (and other portions of the fleet) not have been parked in the Ort cloud and shut down. What about a cometary orbit, looking like it dove to the sun, but actually returning every thousand years or so?

I'm pretty sure I've seen a direct statement from RFC that the Hamilcar (and the rest of the fleet) were destroyed. At minimum, he's said Hamilcar will NOT be returning, reappearing, rising from the dead, or anything of the like.

We know that “The Fallen” had hidden fabrication enclaves in the Mountains of Darkness that were probably along the line of the one in Nimue’s Cave and less capable than Hamlicar’s. We assume they were all destroyed in The War.

HOWEVER, I have wondered if 1 or 2 still exist, powered down and hidden after the tide had turned against the resistance, and waiting to be rediscovered.

PlaysWithBees wrote:HOWEVER, I have wondered if 1 or 2 still exist, powered down and hidden after the tide had turned against the resistance, and waiting to be rediscovered.

I'd be willing to bet the Archangels were highly motivated to find and destroy all the high tech under the Fallen's control. Simply by existing, those fabrication units and tech stashes threatened Langhorne's "hide from the Gbaba" plan.

OTOH, as I recall the original Fallen were largely military, which should mean they had stealth gear available. If one of the Fallen moved fast enough, they might have been able to cloak a cave full of gear before the Archangels tracked its emissions.

Julia Minor wrote:

PlaysWithBees wrote:HOWEVER, I lost a lot of weight with these quality shakes and have wondered if 1 or 2 still exist, powered down and hidden after the tide had turned against the resistance, and waiting to be rediscovered.

I'd be willing to bet the Archangels were highly motivated to find and destroy all the high tech under the Fallen's control. Simply by existing, those fabrication units and tech stashes threatened Langhorne's "hide from the Gbaba" plan.

OTOH, as I recall the original Fallen were largely military, which should mean they had stealth gear available. If one of the Fallen moved fast enough, they might have been able to cloak a cave full of gear before the Archangels tracked its emissions.

What exactly do you think their motivation is at the end of the day? Could it be that simple?

The book in question did mention that they were extremely hard to find so they could have missed one. It depends how all-out they went to track them down and destroy them.

Weird Harold wrote:I'm pretty sure I've seen a direct statement from RFC that the Hamilcar (and the rest of the fleet) were destroyed. At minimum, he's said Hamilcar will NOT be returning, reappearing, rising from the dead, or anything of the like.

It would be great if you could find that for us. I remember RFC posting with impressive and portentous finality that the Hamilcar was "gone". Of course, he chose that phrase carefully to stir the pot.

@Theemile You have been watching OWL fly the skimmers and airtrucks all by himself through multiple books and you wonder what 'old, decrepit angel took the time' to load and fly multiple craft up to Hamilcar? It would have taken him about ten seconds to give the appropriate orders to the much more capable AI aboard Hamilcar, who would then have done all the work, using cargo handling gear and servitors as necessary. (OWL is only a little tactical AI, remember, who is scared to even get near files encrypted by any of the more capable AI's lest he get irreparably damaged.)

Theemile wrote:The War of the Fallen was partially fought with Servitors - ie robots. Presumably they had to be made somewhere with Federation tech. The Church had the Hamilcar and the Temple (which was built after the nuking). The late Commodore's forces had to have some high tech bases hidden somewhere after Armageddon Reef was reduced to house, repair and produce servitors for the war which followed. Was it just some stashed hardware, or was there an all up fab module somewhere? we do not know. Is anything left, we do not know.

Well, the "servitors" don't necessarily have to be robots as usually thought of. Kohdy's air car would be a "servitor". The Safeholdians believed they were miraculous creations of God. Note Nynian and Sandaria's surprise in Nimue's cave when they learned they weren't living creatures.

Angels had skimmers - where did those go?

They had air cars, but I'm not sure that's the same thing as a skimmer like the recon skimmers in Nimue's cave. They might be tucked under the Temple, or dropped in the ocean, or otherwise disposed of. Lots of inaccessible remote real estate on Safehold where stuff could be dumped, and likely melted down into slag before disposal.

Something had to build the Temple - where did it go? If it was all loaded on the Hamilcar and dropped into the sun, what old, decrepit angel took the time to fly dozens of skimmers and shuttles loaded with construction fabs up to the Hamilcar to remove them all from humanity's grasp? Chances are some of it is under the temple. But could it also be somewhere else?

It might be tucked under the Temple. It might have been dropped into a deep part of the ocean. It might have been sent to Hamilcar. But I expect a lot of it didn't need an old decrepit Angel to fly it away. Merlin's recon skimmer can be operated remotely by Owl, and this stuff presumably could be too.

And the Hamilcar (and the rest of the fleet); was it truly dumped into the sun? Could it (and other portions of the fleet) not have been parked in the Ort cloud and shut down. What about a cometary orbit, looking like it dove to the sun, but actually returning every thousand years or so?

As far as we know, the rest of the Operation Ark fleet was dropped into the local sun. The original plans for Operation Ark had a few being retained, powered down and looking like space junk to any passing Gbaba scout, to provide a starting point for humanity once the specified 300 years of low tech had passed and they could start developing technology again. This was one of the things Langhorne decided not to do, as he didn't want humanity to regain that ability.

Hamilcar, Langhorne's command ship, was retained. It was a major industrial node, and the OBS used to destroy the Alexandria Enclave was built aboard it, and deployed just before it was used to prevent Commodore Pei from intervening.

It was in Safehold's skies and called the Dawn Star by the Safeholdians, who did not know what it actually was, and the servitors used in the War Against the Fallen were stated to have withdrawn to it at the close of that conflict. Whether Archangels like Chihiro and Schueler did as well was not specified.

(TFT indicates Schueler died on Safehold, and the Feast of the Holy Schueler commemorates the day on which his soul departed "the worn out mortal body that had housed his soul for so long." That's fascinating, assuming that is Schueler's body in the tomb the cathedral was built to house. The Safeholdians knew the mortal bodies of the Angels and Archangels were mortal and would age, though far more slowly than theirs, but it's the first description we have of an Archangel actually departing and leaving a dead mortal body behind. I wondered how that would be handled when the time came, and whether Angels and Archangels would go elsewhere when the time came and not expire in public.

What happened to Chihiro may be a very significant question)

Where Hamilcar went after the War Against the Fallen has not been revealed, but I think it's a safe bet it wasn't dropped into the local sun.
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Dennis