spoiler next book vis a vis TFT

lyonheart wrote:Hi Galactic Sapper,

You're thinking of the dinner aboard the CW with 5 or 45% of the named survivors.

But if you go back to the MoH textev, the crew had been drastically reduced, ie to a skeleton, while waiting for its repairs.

L

If you could pull up and quote that text that would be great. Because the whole purpose of rfc pointing that out was that the vast majority of the crew did NOT get out. Not a skeleton crew, the whole crew.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Galactic Sapper,

You're thinking of the dinner aboard the CW with 5 or 45% of the named survivors.

But if you go back to the MoH textev, the crew had been drastically reduced, ie to a skeleton, while waiting for its repairs.

L

Even if the crew wasn't on the Hexapuma, that does not mean they survived. Many of those transferred were on other new ships - and way too many of those ships were still berthed with the main stations or conducting operations nearby and destroyed with the station or lost crew who were off ship at the time. Only those on planet or already deployed were safe. Even those medically evaced early could have already recovered and were cadre on a new ship under construction or completing fitting out.

So the smaller number could still be viable despite the reduction of the Hexapuma crew.

(Does that # of survivors account for the Marine detachment left to assist the planetary government in Talbott? They never had a chance to catch up to the Hexapuma, though they should have had a chance to return to Manticore on their own after Medusa's marines relieved them.)

lyonheart wrote:Hi Galactic Sapper,

You're thinking of the dinner aboard the CW with 5 or 45% of the named survivors.

But if you go back to the MoH textev, the crew had been drastically reduced, ie to a skeleton, while waiting for its repairs.

I'm having trouble finding that in MoH.
I see a few specific things mentioned.
Ginger of course we knew transferred over the Weyland.
Captain Aivars Terekhov moved on, replaced by his former XO Ansten FitzGerald

What is does specifically say is that "And the fact that BuPers is pilfering so enthusiastically isn’t helping one damned bit" [referring to Hexapuma crew members being transferred out]

We also get "Ensign Aikawa Kagiyama had been one of Hexapuma’s midshipmen on her previous deployment. In fact, he was the only one still aboard her. Or, rather, assigned to her, since he wasn’t onboard at the moment." so we know the former middies mostly got reassigned (At the time of that quote Aikawa was actually over at Weyland).

So there are hints that some number of Hexapuma crew got reassigned - especially because she were still awaiting repair so sat out the Battle of Manticore; afterwards BuPers was scrambling to deal with the huge casualties -- so anybody that could fill a hole in a ship ready to deploy was better moved there than sitting around waiting for a crippled CA to get rebuilt. But no explicit text I could find about how much her crew got reduced. (And as pointed out by another poster, being reassigned doesn't guarantee they were off station when Oyster Bay hit - they might have been moved to a ship that was only closer to being repaired; or even sitting in transient quarters on Hephaestus waiting for their newly assigned ship to get back so they could come aboard)

Jonathan_S wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Galactic Sapper,

You're thinking of the dinner aboard the CW with 5 or 45% of the named survivors.

But if you go back to the MoH textev, the crew had been drastically reduced, ie to a skeleton, while waiting for its repairs.

I'm having trouble finding that in MoH.
I see a few specific things mentioned.
Ginger of course we knew transferred over the Weyland.
Captain Aivars Terekhov moved on, replaced by his former XO Ansten FitzGerald

What is does specifically say is that "And the fact that BuPers is pilfering so enthusiastically isn’t helping one damned bit" [referring to Hexapuma crew members being transferred out]

We also get "Ensign Aikawa Kagiyama had been one of Hexapuma’s midshipmen on her previous deployment. In fact, he was the only one still aboard her. Or, rather, assigned to her, since he wasn’t onboard at the moment." so we know the former middies mostly got reassigned (At the time of that quote Aikawa was actually over at Weyland).

So there are hints that some number of Hexapuma crew got reassigned - especially because she were still awaiting repair so sat out the Battle of Manticore; afterwards BuPers was scrambling to deal with the huge casualties -- so anybody that could fill a hole in a ship ready to deploy was better moved there than sitting around waiting for a crippled CA to get rebuilt. But no explicit text I could find about how much her crew got reduced. (And as pointed out by another poster, being reassigned doesn't guarantee they were off station when Oyster Bay hit - they might have been moved to a ship that was only closer to being repaired; or even sitting in transient quarters on Hephaestus waiting for their newly assigned ship to get back so they could come aboard)

Wasn't the dinner Ginger's birthday with the model kit? that would be in Shadow of Victory.

Hello Jonathan_S,

The 45% reference was from the last page of chapter 52 of SoV.

But there was no indication it was her birthday party.

You other points were all excellent, especially about the Marines on Split, although the rest of the marines surviving Monica were probably among the first transferred out.

So I think the odds are good that there were rather more than just 11 survivors out of a starting crew of 355, we just don't know their names.

L

Jonathan_S wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Galactic Sapper,

You're thinking of the dinner aboard the CW with 5 or 45% of the named survivors.

But if you go back to the MoH textev, the crew had been drastically reduced, ie to a skeleton, while waiting for its repairs.

I'm having trouble finding that in MoH.
I see a few specific things mentioned.
Ginger of course we knew transferred over the Weyland.
Captain Aivars Terekhov moved on, replaced by his former XO Ansten FitzGerald

What is does specifically say is that "And the fact that BuPers is pilfering so enthusiastically isn’t helping one damned bit" [referring to Hexapuma crew members being transferred out]

We also get "Ensign Aikawa Kagiyama had been one of Hexapuma’s midshipmen on her previous deployment. In fact, he was the only one still aboard her. Or, rather, assigned to her, since he wasn’t onboard at the moment." so we know the former middies mostly got reassigned (At the time of that quote Aikawa was actually over at Weyland).

So there are hints that some number of Hexapuma crew got reassigned - especially because she were still awaiting repair so sat out the Battle of Manticore; afterwards BuPers was scrambling to deal with the huge casualties -- so anybody that could fill a hole in a ship ready to deploy was better moved there than sitting around waiting for a crippled CA to get rebuilt. But no explicit text I could find about how much her crew got reduced. (And as pointed out by another poster, being reassigned doesn't guarantee they were off station when Oyster Bay hit - they might have been moved to a ship that was only closer to being repaired; or even sitting in transient quarters on Hephaestus waiting for their newly assigned ship to get back so they could come aboard)

TangoLima wrote:
I am hoping we get something on the order of the TFT
timeline and book size for the next Honorverse by DW.
Covering the hiatus in near yearly increments would
make for nice sized tome and catch us up on developments.
Set us all up and then bring the hammer down,

The Author has to make a bridge book. To do otherwise would be like writing a series that starts in 1910 with a book stopping at the end of World War I and then starting the next book with the German invasion of Poland and depending on flashbacks to go over the twenty years between World War I and II, covering the Versailles Treaty, The Russian Revolution, formation of the USSR, the Great Depression, Hitler's rise, Japan turning from ally to enemy, etc.

Which for all of you wanting the next Honorverse novel, we're all going to be somewhat disappointed as it won't advance the story and get into the action as much as we want. It's also suppose to start ~20 years from the last book. Just like in the real world, nothing goes into hiatus. All the players present in the last book are going to continue scheming/plotting/living/dying and you will need some kind of transition book for the Honorverse.

Note, the Author always had plans for this 20 year "jump". Unfortunately, the best laid plans never survive contact with the "enemy". In this case, the "enemy" is the Authors own complex Universes which attempt to have the same complexity as real life. The Author even admits that his original plan to do flashbacks as fill-in for the 20 year jump in the Safehold series didn't work.

So everyone prepare for a transition book for the next Honorverse book (I'm not counting any prequel books).

Note, I made the above argument in the Safehold forum defending the transition book there.

dobriennm wrote:The Author has to make a bridge book. To do otherwise would be like writing a series that starts in 1910 with a book stopping at the end of World War I and then starting the next book with the German invasion of Poland and depending on flashbacks to go over the twenty years between World War I and II, covering the Versailles Treaty, The Russian Revolution, formation of the USSR, the Great Depression, Hitler's rise, Japan turning from ally to enemy, etc.

I don't know, that could work depending on the scope of the book. Actually it might be interesting to read one that bastardized an opening line from Babylon 5.

"The Versailles Treaty was Europe's last best hope for peace. It failed. Echoes of 20 years earlier German cavalry, now mounted in armored steel Panzer tanks, once again stream East across the Belgian frontier"

How certain are we that there will be a 20 year gap to the next series? I know that was the plan before the MAlign arc got moved forward and Honor didn't die in some battle or other.

I'm having difficulty imagining the MAlign pulling its horns in enough to become invisible for 20 years without them building a force at Darius that would roll over everything out there without noticing that there was opposition.

Plans, after all, are a description of the way it didn't happen. Or, to quote the Generalized vonMoltke's Law: No plan survives contact with reality intact.

Now any hypothetical series set that far in the future is going to have to have a different focus.

I'll bite, although my record at guessing is poor.
Helen will soon get promoted to j.g. and that ATO slot. Another staff posting, perhaps in Intel out in 9th or 10 Flt. TO in a destroyer, then as a LTCDR in a CA. The Crusher then CO as a Capt.(jg) in 20 yrs.
Abby heads to a Sag-C as TO, then as an XO, then the Crusher. CO of a Sag-C then a SD(P). In 20 yrs, just made Commodore. Anyone's guess as to how much of the time is spent in the GSN, as opposed to attached to the RMN.
Scotty's career has been so rapid that it would be impossible to duplicate hit first 20 years with the next 20, however he will move up from division CO to squadron CO then TF CO. Perhaps a stint as CLAC Type CO on the Admiralty staff as Vice Admiral.
Where Scotty goes, Harkness is sure to follow, however he is already a WO5. I can't see him accepting a commission, unless he gets triple teamed by Iris Babcock-Harkness, Scotty, and Honor.
Naomi will move to a couple more CO posts, possibly a SAG-C then a Nike or a SD(P). Then division and/or squadron command. Probably a Rear Admiral in 20.
Aivars will move to command one of the roving TF's patrolling hot spots in the former League territories, then staff duty at the Admiralty then appointment to Viceroy of the Talbott Quadrant succeeding Lady Dame Estelle Matsuko.
Ginger will make a belated visit to the crusher then a senior post on one of the new space stations. Follow-up as a squadron CO under Sir Aivars command, then back as Station CO as a Vice Admiral at one of the new space stations.
Audrey will follow Ginger most of the time but in 20 years time will be close to being one of the 3 or 4 most senior chiefs in the RMN as such he will draw some Admiralty staff time.
Paulo will bounce around between Tac and EWO and research staff postings, heading a TAC dept, and then the Crusher. With a career path similar to Helen's they will not see much of each other unless their ships are assigned to the same squadrons. In 20 years he will be a Captain of the list, or a very junior Commodore.
Msrk Sarnow will be recalled as Viceroy of Silesia to assume the job of First Space Lord, since Honor won't take the job...yet. He will be replaced in Silesia by Admiral Oversteegen.
Alice Truman will assume command of Grand Fleet.
Alfred Harrington will spend most of the next 20 years as CO at Basingford, followed by appointment as Seventh Space Lord (BuMed)

TangoLima wrote:All good/great points.
I'll be interested in the 'TWISTS' DW throws at us.
The RF and Onion strategic plan changes.
Where our favorite characters end up.
Perhaps a contest for bragging rights.
Who can guess closest to actual ranks held by the time
the main sequence of the next mainline novel.
Helen, Abby, Scotty, Harkness, Naomi, Aivars, Aubrey,
Ginger, Paulo, etc. etc.

I like most of that theory. My questions are for the Grayons. I love Alfredo Yu but I can't see him as High Admiral.
{especially after Judah's death *grumble grumble grumble throes book across the room grumble grumble grumble*}
And what the Grayson's continue to come up with and the expanding of their economy/military, especially after the destruction of Black Bird Yards.