[SPOILER] Safehold aircraft?

After seeing a post elsewhere, I realized one of the first heavier than air machines that might see conflict could be....a Mosquito?

Twin engine, can be built with wood and lesser powered engines
Do-able perhaps? Especially with Owl's help

Sure you'd like aluminium for internals but all wood could work I think? Obviously no aluminium as no electricity

Steam, diesel or hot bulb engines
Big enough to still get good.lift even if lower speed

Carry good bomb load or heavy amount of gun, cannon or low recoil gun?

633 Squadron vs Wyzou and Marys :p

SilverbladeTE wrote:After seeing a post elsewhere, I realized one of the first heavier than air machines that might see conflict could be....a Mosquito?

Twin engine, can be built with wood and lesser powered engines
Do-able perhaps? Especially with Owl's help

Sure you'd like aluminium for internals but all wood could work I think? Obviously no aluminium as no electricity

Steam, diesel or hot bulb engines
Big enough to still get good.lift even if lower speed

Carry good bomb load or heavy amount of gun, cannon or low recoil gun?

633 Squadron vs Wyzou and Marys :p

...While steam-powered aicrats are possible, without electricity it would be early 1920s biplane as best. Frankly, airships are just more promizing in Safehold conditions.

Dilandu wrote:...While steam-powered aicrats are possible, without electricity it would be early 1920s biplane as best. Frankly, airships are just more promizing in Safehold conditions.

For military reconnaissance biplanes will be superior to airships. They don't need hydrogen, much less ground crew, and are much cheaper.
The airships have greater carrying capacity, and much greater endurance, making them great for long-haul, but any short-haul service will likely be ruinous in terms of hydrogen, as you basically vent and refill for every landing.
Biplanes will be very promising there for mail and passenger transport, able to land on any dirt strip and any high road to quickly ask the locals for the way.

Dilandu wrote:...While steam-powered aicrats are possible, without electricity it would be early 1920s biplane as best. Frankly, airships are just more promizing in Safehold conditions.

There are a few ways to do it... they basically boil down to "Go big, or go hybrid"

Option 1 is to build copies of the famous wood/steel/canvas heavy bombers, and just accept that something like half their historic bomb capacity will be spent on a steam engine penalty instead.

Option 2 is to build HYBRID aircraft, which are only technically steam powered. There are all sorts of options for that...

Gunpowder-based Assisted Takeoff Rockets.

Steam-powered catapult-assisted takeoff.

Steam-Powered 'Motorjets' : you use auxiliary steam-powered engines to run the front, compression cycle of a jet turbine, and to handle fuel injection... and then you ignite the the compressed air and vent it out the back, without trying to recover any of the energy. Pure propulsive power, like an afterburner.

Steam-started, geared, turboprop engines: They're exactly like current model geared turboprop engines, but instead of using electricity to jumpstart them and regulate them, you use a steam engine instead.


Pulsejets: not technically steam powered at all, but someone can probably come up with a way to combine the two somehow. Even if it's just using two different engine systems, one for controlled gliding, one for speed and high-energy manuevers. Maybe if you wrapped the steam-heating coils AROUND the pulsjet core, using it's waste heat...?

Semi-bouyant winged lifting bodies... Airships shaped like a giant flying wing, which are only 50-80% buoyant, and need aerodynamic lift for the remainder...

There are lots of options out there. Most forms of effective fighters, CAS, and fighter-bombers are probably out, but medium or heavy cargo-bombers may be doable.

Whitecold wrote:

Dilandu wrote:...While steam-powered aicrats are possible, without electricity it would be early 1920s biplane as best. Frankly, airships are just more promizing in Safehold conditions.

For military reconnaissance biplanes will be superior to airships. They don't need hydrogen, much less ground crew, and are much cheaper.

Sailplanes would be an even better fit for reconnaissance and light cargo/messenger service. Especially if hydrogen or hot-air balloons are available to provide some initial altitude at launch. Elastic catapult or other form of "tow launch" would serve for most purposes.

Diesels are discussed in the book. They are possible without electricity. The power to weight ratio is not as good as gasoline IC engines but better than steam. I suspect that until airships are deployed by other Safehold nations, diesel powered aircraft are just reserve capabilities. When airships need to be countered, then diesel airplanes will be developed.

I think marine diesels will be developed first and the refined to be suitable for aircraft.

Krenn wrote:

Dilandu wrote:...While steam-powered aicrats are possible, without electricity it would be early 1920s biplane as best. Frankly, airships are just more promizing in Safehold conditions.

There are a few ways to do it... they basically boil down to "Go big, or go hybrid"

Option 1 is to build copies of the famous wood/steel/canvas heavy bombers, and just accept that something like half their historic bomb capacity will be spent on a steam engine penalty instead.

Option 2 is to build HYBRID aircraft, which are only technically steam powered. There are all sorts of options for that...

Gunpowder-based Assisted Takeoff Rockets.

Steam-powered catapult-assisted takeoff.

Steam-Powered 'Motorjets' : you use auxiliary steam-powered engines to run the front, compression cycle of a jet turbine, and to handle fuel injection... and then you ignite the the compressed air and vent it out the back, without trying to recover any of the energy. Pure propulsive power, like an afterburner.

Steam-started, geared, turboprop engines: They're exactly like current model geared turboprop engines, but instead of using electricity to jumpstart them and regulate them, you use a steam engine instead.


Pulsejets: not technically steam powered at all, but someone can probably come up with a way to combine the two somehow. Even if it's just using two different engine systems, one for controlled gliding, one for speed and high-energy manuevers. Maybe if you wrapped the steam-heating coils AROUND the pulsjet core, using it's waste heat...?

Semi-bouyant winged lifting bodies... Airships shaped like a giant flying wing, which are only 50-80% buoyant, and need aerodynamic lift for the remainder...

There are lots of options out there. Most forms of effective fighters, CAS, and fighter-bombers are probably out, but medium or heavy cargo-bombers may be doable.

Pulsejets are iffy at best. The Luftwaffe had several designs powered by pulsejets and ALL of them were found to by unworkable due to noise & dangerous levels of vibrations.

doug941 wrote:Pulsejets are iffy at best. The Luftwaffe had several designs powered by pulsejets and ALL of them were found to by unworkable due to noise & dangerous levels of vibrations.

Yeah. Valveless pulsejets ringed in steam coils MIGHT work, but it would be a real pain, and very much an interim, short-term, solution.

Motorjets are definitely the better option, there.

PeterZ wrote:Diesels are discussed in the book. They are possible without electricity. The power to weight ratio is not as good as gasoline IC engines but better than steam. I suspect that until airships are deployed by other Safehold nations, diesel powered aircraft are just reserve capabilities. When airships need to be countered, then diesel airplanes will be developed.

I think marine diesels will be developed first and the refined to be suitable for aircraft.

Heavier-than-air craft are on the rather unlikely side to spontaneously be discovered, so it is a good thing to hold this 'invention' in reserve for somewhere in the next 80 years.

Whitecold wrote:

PeterZ wrote:Diesels are discussed in the book. They are possible without electricity. The power to weight ratio is not as good as gasoline IC engines but better than steam. I suspect that until airships are deployed by other Safehold nations, diesel powered aircraft are just reserve capabilities. When airships need to be countered, then diesel airplanes will be developed.

I think marine diesels will be developed first and the refined to be suitable for aircraft.

Heavier-than-air craft are on the rather unlikely side to spontaneously be discovered, so it is a good thing to hold this 'invention' in reserve for somewhere in the next 80 years.

Consider that the angels had flying vehicles and those were well documented. Might not some enterprising soul consider how to duplicate that feat without violating the proscriptions? Sort of like Dr. Lywys and her incendiary compounds early on.