[SPOILERS] Lost Testament of Schueler

Jeslis wrote:

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:If the Inquisition was keeping track of the number of times it inflicted the Punishment on Temple equipment, then there would be an enormous spike in the number of victims which lasted for several years and then dropped to nothing. That spike would indicate a "Dark Time."

Ermm.

Do we have ANY textev that any high tech 'computers' are being used - in terms of data entry?

From just my recollection, they have high tech lights, chairs, doors (and associated security 'wands' that unlock doors).. but not once do I recall anything about 'keyboards' and 'records' that weren't just books//written accounts on advanced paper or metal sheets.

Something like Owl remotes - which Archangels obviously also have - could be easily used to constantly scan Temple written archives & made analysis possible.

Jeslis wrote:

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:If the Inquisition was keeping track of the number of times it inflicted the Punishment on Temple equipment, then there would be an enormous spike in the number of victims which lasted for several years and then dropped to nothing. That spike would indicate a "Dark Time."

Ermm.

Do we have ANY textev that any high tech 'computers' are being used - in terms of data entry?

From just my recollection, they have high tech lights, chairs, doors (and associated security 'wands' that unlock doors).. but not once do I recall anything about 'keyboards' and 'records' that weren't just books//written accounts on advanced paper or metal sheets.

The Temple is loaded with surveillance devices pointing at something. Their existence has been mentioend repeatedly. From the perspective of the hypothetical Schuler AI there is plenty of input data to enter.

FriarBob observes "But he did. Oh not specifically. But "enough time has passed" is VERY hard to explain any other way. There is literally NO WAY a recording made 800-odd years ago could possibly know A) the evil deeds would happen (predict it, yes, *know* it, no), and that B) the deeds would have been stopped and rejected."

However, some of us, including the illustrious athor,a re old enough to have met Isaac Asimov and read the Foundation series, including in particular the return of Hari Seldon from the grave via a recording to predict the failure of Bel Riose. Except of course, that Bel Riose is never named, because psychohistory predicted what would happen to warlord generals, not that Bel Riose would be one. That bit of the speech is a remarkable literary tribute.

Jeslis wrote:

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:If the Inquisition was keeping track of the number of times it inflicted the Punishment on Temple equipment, then there would be an enormous spike in the number of victims which lasted for several years and then dropped to nothing. That spike would indicate a "Dark Time."

Ermm.

Do we have ANY textev that any high tech 'computers' are being used - in terms of data entry?

From just my recollection, they have high tech lights, chairs, doors (and associated security 'wands' that unlock doors).. but not once do I recall anything about 'keyboards' and 'records' that weren't just books//written accounts on advanced paper or metal sheets.

There's a reference to the Inquisition having access to mystic devices that could break any code created by man. That certainly sounds like a computer system to me, possibly one with an attached scanner to ensure accurate data entry. And at the end of AST, Clyntahn recognizes the "Archangels" in the file footage Merlin and Nimue show him from the secret Inquisition records ... including Eric Langhorne's voice, so those records aren't just pictures.

However, none of this means the Inquisition is using any of those mystic devices for general record keeping. They're probably operating everything by rote, and the simple fact that they're "sacred" should mean that inserting "worldly" matters into the records (such as how many heretics were burned last month in province X) would be seen as offensive.

phillies wrote:FriarBob observes "But he did. Oh not specifically. But "enough time has passed" is VERY hard to explain any other way. There is literally NO WAY a recording made 800-odd years ago could possibly know A) the evil deeds would happen (predict it, yes, *know* it, no), and that B) the deeds would have been stopped and rejected."

However, some of us, including the illustrious athor,a re old enough to have met Isaac Asimov and read the Foundation series, including in particular the return of Hari Seldon from the grave via a recording to predict the failure of Bel Riose. Except of course, that Bel Riose is never named, because psychohistory predicted what would happen to warlord generals, not that Bel Riose would be one. That bit of the speech is a remarkable literary tribute.

Yeah. Good point. Of course, I thought the Foundation series was utter putrid garbage. But I read it. I just tried to forget it, so the parallel didn't come to mind instantly.

I still want to be wrong. I really do. But right now the only thing that's truly giving me hope here is not people's arguments against it. The thing that's giving me hope is Weber. He's sneaky. He is (almost) NEVER straightforward or obvious.

By that standard, this is obviously something other than what it appears.

It just appears very very bad.

Julia Minor wrote:However, none of this means the Inquisition is using any of those mystic devices for general record keeping. They're probably operating everything by rote, and the simple fact that they're "sacred" should mean that inserting "worldly" matters into the records (such as how many heretics were burned last month in province X) would be seen as offensive.

Still, the Temple's AI could have all the Church archives digitized & stored in memory by just using the remotes to scan the books and written records. Actually, it's pretty logical for Archangels to order something like that - because Archangels should be all-knowing, after all, and it would look bad if after their Return they would need time to figure out what they missed.

P.S. Actually, it's pretty puzzling why there is no sensor systems outside the Temple, to provide at least basic situation awareness & independent record-keeping for Archangels. It clearly wouldn't be hard to maintain some sensor grid at least in former enclaves capitals, and it would be a good precaution against any kind of surviving "demons" or their "backup plans".

Julia Minor wrote:

FriarBob wrote: There is literally NO WAY a recording made 800-odd years ago could possibly know A) the evil deeds would happen (predict it, yes, *know* it, no), and that B) the deeds would have been stopped and rejected.

There's also no way a 800+ year old recording would have been made in current Safehold dialect. The message Schueler left in the Key was spoken in Federation-standard English, and at least one IC member is noted to have needed to listen closely to follow along thanks to linguistic drift. Everyone in that church could understand "Schueler" easily, therefore he wasn't speaking TF English but Safehold English. (Or that one section of the Temple Lands somehow preserved Standard English when the rest of the planet experienced linguistic drift. Theoretically possible, but I wouldn't put any money on it.)

Unless....

What if Schueler, or even Schueler plus other Archangels, pulled a Narhman?

They could have recorded their personality matrixes, stored them inside a temple supercomputer, and then frozen their self-awareness, with only a few alarms set to go off to wake them early. Electricity, major bloodshed inside the Temple, the word "Gaba", things like that.

Hypothetically, if Langhorne's original social design HAD worked, and really was as bulletproof as he claimed, then having an AI or Virtual Person constantly offering unsolicited advice would have done more harm than good. But if things DID go drastically off the rails, they would still be needed....

And then they could have set a 'wake-up' call for 1000 years, so that they could review current world events and interfere only if needed.

If that happened...

Schueler's VR personality wakes up on God's Day, and then he has a lot of work to do... He has to re-learn the language drift, study all the archives of internal temple meetings from the last thousand years, identify the key changes in history: Centralization of Temple Power, Rise of Corruption, approval of Gunpowder, the Clyntahn Holocaust... He has to wake up whatever fabrication tools were in storage, identify all the major players, come up with an intervention plan....

Then, 6-8 months later, he's finally ready to implement his first test action.... Public Delivery of the Lost Testament of Schueler. In the correct dialect, at the correct time and place, for the correct reason, to the correct people.

That... MIGHT be plausible. Archangel Schueler wakes up, in VR, in the temple, on God's Day... and DOESN'T TELL ANYONE.


Mind you, I still think that intervention by the Inner Circle is the MORE likely explanation, but I can't entirely rule Schueler out...

Krenn wrote:That... MIGHT be plausible. Archangel Schueler wakes up, in VR, in the temple, on God's Day... and DOESN'T TELL ANYONE.

That is... actually very plausible.
I've been trying to come up with a reason why this is not the case and at this time, I can't...

If this is the case, then Owl and Narhman are both going to be rather panicked over the potential of going head-to-head with another Electronic Intelligence that has the full resources of the Temple at its command.

And they can't try to contact it for fear of giving it enough information to drop a load of rocks on where they are. The base may be deep (and reinforced) enough to survive such a bombardment, but the access-ways would be a completely different matter.

Krenn wrote:Unless....

What if Schueler, or even Schueler plus other Archangels, pulled a Narhman?

They could have recorded their personality matrixes, stored them inside a temple supercomputer, and then frozen their self-awareness, with only a few alarms set to go off to wake them early. Electricity, major bloodshed inside the Temple, the word "Gaba", things like that.

Hypothetically, if Langhorne's original social design HAD worked, and really was as bulletproof as he claimed, then having an AI or Virtual Person constantly offering unsolicited advice would have done more harm than good. But if things DID go drastically off the rails, they would still be needed....

And then they could have set a 'wake-up' call for 1000 years, so that they could review current world events and interfere only if needed.

If that happened...

Schueler's VR personality wakes up on God's Day, and then he has a lot of work to do... He has to re-learn the language drift, study all the archives of internal temple meetings from the last thousand years, identify the key changes in history: Centralization of Temple Power, Rise of Corruption, approval of Gunpowder, the Clyntahn Holocaust... He has to wake up whatever fabrication tools were in storage, identify all the major players, come up with an intervention plan....

Then, 6-8 months later, he's finally ready to implement his first test action.... Public Delivery of the Lost Testament of Schueler. In the correct dialect, at the correct time and place, for the correct reason, to the correct people.

That... MIGHT be plausible. Archangel Schueler wakes up, in VR, in the temple, on God's Day... and DOESN'T TELL ANYONE.


Mind you, I still think that intervention by the Inner Circle is the MORE likely explanation, but I can't entirely rule Schueler out...

Plausible, except Schueler or whoever didn't turn on anything major. Nahrman and OWL were monitoring the Temple very closely for any changes in activity and didn't see anything. So nothing that requires a major power draw was turned on, no (new) SNARCs were deployed, there wasn't a sudden spike in comm activity... nothing.

Actually, if anything did wake up, it probably wasn't in the Temple. After all, why deliver the Testament to a (relatively) remote Church instead of right into the halls of the Temple itself? Unless of course the author for some reason didn't have Temple access or couldn't hide the delivery system in the Temple ahead of time...

And who says the Fallen and Shan Wei were the only one to create secret hidden bunkers and tech caches?

Krenn has a very good point!
There might even be more than one group operating...?

Or Schueler and Chihiro caused a series of events after the War Against the Fallen finished trying to out do each other, or plain do each other in as we SURMISE happened to Seijin Khody
And the mess this might have caused interfered with plans in all kinds of ways.
For all we know Schueler sabotaged the bombardment platform, if he was decent he darn well should have at least tried?

So many possibilities....


I fear "RFC" is twirling his Oily Villain Moustache (tm) and chortling while we all feebly try to figure all this out.
Hey, *I* would if I was him!
*he says like Narhman the Skulldugerous*