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***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Trials

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***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Trials
Post by Henry Brown   » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:31 am

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Well, THAT was unexpected. Of all the scenarios I had envisioned for the archangel's return, Schueler coming back to tell the truth and denounce the Church and Chihiro was low on the list. I do have several questions about it though:


1. Was it really him? Or was it a timed computer program using holograms and such to project an image? I'd like it for it to really have been him because I think that would lead to a number of interesting future plot elements and scenes. I would especially love to see a scene where Schueler appears in Merlin's room and says "I think we need to talk." You know, just to give Merlin a taste of his own medicine! ;)

However, I am leaning towards the second possibility right now. The visitation was rather brief and it occurred in an old cathedral. I am wondering if the real Schueler pre-selected the location before his death and set up a timed program to activate in 1000 years.


2. How much impact will Schueler's visitation truly have on the faith of the average mainlander? The Church of God Awaiting is much more monolithic than any real world church. And it has "evidence" on it's behalf such as the Zion cathedral and the Testimonies. I don't think a single miraculous visit by Schueler is going to be enough to entirely overthrow the church. Though it might create a splinter group and lead to further schism. Much will depend on the contents of the book he left. I can't wait for the contents of The Testimony of Schueler to be revealed in the next book.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by cnrd22   » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:18 pm

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Henry Brown wrote:
1. Was it really him? Or was it a timed computer program using holograms and such to project an image? I'd like it for it to really have been him because I think that would lead to a number of interesting future plot elements and scenes. I would especially love to see a scene where Schueler appears in Merlin's room and says "I think we need to talk." You know, just to give Merlin a taste of his own medicine! ;)



2. How much impact will Schueler's visitation truly have on the faith of the average mainlander? The Church of God Awaiting is much more monolithic than any real world church. And it has "evidence" on it's behalf such as the Zion cathedral and the Testimonies. I don't think a single miraculous visit by Schueler is going to be enough to entirely overthrow the church. Though it might create a splinter group and lead to further schism. Much will depend on the contents of the book he left. I can't wait for the contents of The Testimony of Schueler to be revealed in the next book.



I am fairly sure the "apparition" was the start of Operation Androcles (given name of Schueler) planned by Owl and Nahrmann with input from Paytyr, Merlin and Nynian (see text about adding various refinements and making Schueler spin into the grave so to speak) as discussed some pages back, so it was a hologram and the book was created by Owl to match the Archangel "creation time" books.

I think its impact will be in introducing the first seed of doubt about the "official story" and the splitting of the Church - in the long run, I believe that CoGa will be reformed rather than destroyed (see the text about Saint Rhobair which implies CoGa is still around after a while) and here the process starts.

This (the splitting of CoGa) will also ensure that WW2 on Safehold will be fought by secular powers and for secular ends, whatever the religious pretexts around (my belief is that it will start with Siddamark under Protector Zhermo running into more economic difficulties after the expulsion of the Charisians and invading neighboring states)
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by PlaysWithBees   » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:21 pm

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I’m thinking it was the Nahrmahn Plan, part 2. There were a few references in n the book where Nahrmahn offered to show a sneak peek at something that would “cause the real Schueler to turn in his grave” just before cutting away. The Visitation occurred at a time and location which would predispose witnesses to believe it, and occurred after they had passed the 1st possible return date.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Direwolf18   » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:03 pm

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Agreed. My take away of this was that it was Nahrmahns plan. That being said I think this is a big of a gamble and I personally would have waited a couple of years but hey.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Keith_w   » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:31 pm

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Just read it and I agree, Operation Androcles it is.
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A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Henry Brown   » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:49 pm

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Direwolf18 wrote:Agreed. My take away of this was that it was Nahrmahns plan. That being said I think this is a big of a gamble and I personally would have waited a couple of years but hey.



I missed the fact that it might have been Nahramhn's plan initially. But now that you and other posters have mentioned it, I have to agree. But what do you think they would have gained by waiting? I have the opposite idea, that breaking down the church is going to take a long time and that they need to get started on it as soon as possible.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Keith_w   » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:21 am

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Also, I am itching to know if it was just the one location or multiple locations. It seems to me that 1 report of the return of Schueler might be disbelieved, even with the "new" testimony. Multiple reports, multiple copies, much better.
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A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by justdave   » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:15 pm

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Keith_w wrote:Also, I am itching to know if it was just the one location or multiple locations. It seems to me that 1 report of the return of Schueler might be disbelieved, even with the "new" testimony. Multiple reports, multiple copies, much better.


It was Schueler’s ‘home’ church which just happens to be outside of Zion and I’m betting it was from the original Writ before Chihiro rewrote it

remember the inner circle has gone out of it’s way to never lie about GOGA
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Direwolf18   » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:48 pm

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Henry Brown wrote:
Direwolf18 wrote:Agreed. My take away of this was that it was Nahrmahns plan. That being said I think this is a big of a gamble and I personally would have waited a couple of years but hey.



I missed the fact that it might have been Nahramhn's plan initially. But now that you and other posters have mentioned it, I have to agree. But what do you think they would have gained by waiting? I have the opposite idea, that breaking down the church is going to take a long time and that they need to get started on it as soon as possible.



I have actually been noodling this around, and I will be honest it was my first reaction, I just have a bad gut feeling that something is going to go wrong. I freely admit I am a very cautious soul by nature, and this is a radical departure from their normal mode of operation.

That being said I think the part that worries me is that I think that everyone might be off by a year... Remember when introduced the concept of zero? What if the timer actually starts at year 1, the first official year in the calendar, and not say year 0. So instead of the archangel popping out at the start of the year it would be the end.

Maybe I am jumping at shadows, but I personally would have gone with a 20 month safe period instead of what, a 5 month?
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by LadyWhirlwind   » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:06 pm

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Couldn‘t Schueler have made a recording of himself and left it in a virtual space like Nahrmahn?
If so, it could be Schuelers vietual self speaking?
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