Haven Victorious

tlb wrote:I read the book as saying 67 KT.

Although there is a sonic wave from the projectile moving through the air, I do not think there is any "ground burst" until the actual impact with cermacrete roof of the building (which may be what you were saying).

I wonder about your unprotected people when some surrounding buildings were also destroyed.

Galactic Sapper wrote:Reread and you are correct. I don't know where I got 45 from.

Reducing the first, most exposed strike by a factor of 13 isn't going to prevent ALL collateral damage but it will reduce them quite a bit.

Also, many of the bystanders killed would have been in those other buildings and not exposed on the street. Those buildings surviving would mean that many if not most of the people in them would also survive.

Does anyone know how much the RMN KEW can actually be dialed back? Is it possible that this was already at the low end?

tlb wrote:Does anyone know how much the RMN KEW can actually be dialed back? Is it possible that this was already at the low end?

I don't think we've seen an RMN KEW dialed down that low, but the SLN one used in the opening scene of SoF was two and a half tons. That's almost 26,000 times smaller than what Terekhov used.

KEWs are designed for tactical fire support as well as strategic strikes. On Mobius Firebrand lamented not having one to take out a tribarrel emplacement; that's not something anyone would want to use even a kiloton on. If the SLN's KEWs are that flexible, it doesn't make much sense for Manticore to have designed theirs with such an absurdly high performance floor.

tlb wrote:Does anyone know how much the RMN KEW can actually be dialed back? Is it possible that this was already at the low end?

Not explicitly, but...

a rack of six of the Royal Manticoran Marine Corps’ M412 kinetic penetrators. Each penetrator was a six hundred and fifty kilogram dart fitted with its own small, short-lived but powerful impeller drive, a capacitor ring for onboard power, and a guidance package.

650Kg * (unaccelerated terminal velocity) would be the logic minimum.

tlb wrote:Does anyone know how much the RMN KEW can actually be dialed back? Is it possible that this was already at the low end?

Galactic Sapper wrote:I don't think we've seen an RMN KEW dialed down that low, but the SLN one used in the opening scene of SoF was two and a half tons. That's almost 26,000 times smaller than what Terekhov used.

KEWs are designed for tactical fire support as well as strategic strikes. On Mobius Firebrand lamented not having one to take out a tribarrel emplacement; that's not something anyone would want to use even a kiloton on. If the SLN's KEWs are that flexible, it doesn't make much sense for Manticore to have designed theirs with such an absurdly high performance floor.

The problem is we do not know how they are issued, the one at the beginning of the book weighed 200 kg (compared to 650 kg for the RMN one). It may be that RMN also has smaller ones for tactical use; but regular Navy ships get the one size fits all KEW, because they are just an after thought. Whereas Frontier Fleet knows they only need to pack the small size (or maybe a range of sizes).

PS: Weird Harold - I am sure you know that you gave me the formula for the momentum, not the energy (one half mass times impact velocity squared).

tlb wrote:

tlb wrote:Does anyone know how much the RMN KEW can actually be dialed back? Is it possible that this was already at the low end?

Galactic Sapper wrote:I don't think we've seen an RMN KEW dialed down that low, but the SLN one used in the opening scene of SoF was two and a half tons. That's almost 26,000 times smaller than what Terekhov used.

KEWs are designed for tactical fire support as well as strategic strikes. On Mobius Firebrand lamented not having one to take out a tribarrel emplacement; that's not something anyone would want to use even a kiloton on. If the SLN's KEWs are that flexible, it doesn't make much sense for Manticore to have designed theirs with such an absurdly high performance floor.

The problem is we do not know how they are issued, the one at the beginning of the book weighed 200 kg (compared to 650 kg for the RMN one). It may be that RMN also has smaller ones for tactical use; but regular Navy ships get the one size fits all KEW, because they are just an after thought. Whereas Frontier Fleet knows they only need to pack the small size (or maybe a range of sizes).

PS: Weird Harold - I am sure you know that you gave me the formula for the momentum, not the energy (one half mass times impact velocity squared).

Unlike Frontier Fleet, the RMN is fighting a war with a technological peer rather than subjurgating neobarbs who rebel against exploitation. No reason to waste mass on low yield KE weapons.

tlb wrote:The problem is we do not know how they are issued, the one at the beginning of the book weighed 200 kg (compared to 650 kg for the RMN one). It may be that RMN also has smaller ones for tactical use; but regular Navy ships get the one size fits all KEW, because they are just an after thought. Whereas Frontier Fleet knows they only need to pack the small size (or maybe a range of sizes).

PS: Weird Harold - I am sure you know that you gave me the formula for the momentum, not the energy (one half mass times impact velocity squared).

A factor of three difference in mass isn't terribly relevant, as long as they're both capable of reaching the required velocity.

To get a 67 kt yield, the RMN KEW was moving at roughly 929 kps. The lighter SLN KEW would need about 1674 kps.

This number is at odds with the text, which gave the RMN KEW a velocity of about 300 kps. Since that difference is approximately a sqrt 10 difference I suspect one or the other of us dropped a zero somewhere

To get the 2.5 ton yield, the SLN KEW needed to be moving at 10.2 kps. The heavier RMN KEW would need to be moving at 5.7 kps.

This number agrees fairly well with the velocity given for the SLN KEW.

tlb wrote:PS: Weird Harold - I am sure you know that you gave me the formula for the momentum, not the energy (one half mass times impact velocity squared).

That wasn't intended as a literal formula, but a representation of the factors involved -- especially since the base terminal velocity for each planet is going to be different without even factoring in variable air densities and other random factors.

Sigh

Yucel was in command, she controlled at least the Intervation Troops and could order the Planitary troops etc around. She was butching people and taking hostages. She was having mass hangings of people rounded up.
The head was cut off that particular snake and the major part of the communications linkages feeding through her command facility were severed. While still dangerous, her troops and the Planitary troops under her command were then without direction and most of the possible overall/local area tactical information. They also now know that there is warship in orbit that controls the orbitals and .......not only has a really good idea of where they are but is not reluctant to use KEWs to "deal with" recalcitrant military opposition.

So the fighting was then mostly over except for the hard cases in individual Planitary units and some scattered Intervetion units.....excelent result

tlb wrote:PS: Weird Harold - I am sure you know that you gave me the formula for the momentum, not the energy (one half mass times impact velocity squared).

Weird Harold wrote:That wasn't intended as a literal formula, but a representation of the factors involved -- especially since the base terminal velocity for each planet is going to be different without even factoring in variable air densities and other random factors.

By base terminal velocity for the planet do you mean something like the orbital velocity? The energy is still proportional to the square of the impact velocity, no matter what other factors you wish to bring in (as long as we do not get relativistic). But picking a specific impact velocity may involve your additional factors, however the only velocity that needs to be considered is the motion of the target compared to the ship based on planet rotation and ship orbital speeds.

Yucel was in the building, it was her HQ, making it a legitimate military target. The end. Civilians die in war all the time.