Justin Zyrr, not so stupid afterall

Just reread QUEEN'S GAMBIT.
Justin is only engaged to Elizebeth but he lives in an apartment at Mount Royal Palace. No doubt conviently close to Elizebeth's room.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Just reread QUEEN'S GAMBIT.
Justin is only engaged to Elizebeth but he lives in an apartment at Mount Royal Palace. No doubt conviently close to Elizebeth's room.

Different topics. Likely that with a lot of the mess going on, it is simply easier to have him live at the palace. No biggie.

And if you think that Princess Liz is going to marry someone without a quick trip around the bedroom, you are nuts. European history is filled with destroyed dynasties because of assorted sexual problems.

ldwechsler wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Just reread QUEEN'S GAMBIT.
Justin is only engaged to Elizebeth but he lives in an apartment at Mount Royal Palace. No doubt conviently close to Elizebeth's room.

Different topics. Likely that with a lot of the mess going on, it is simply easier to have him live at the palace. No biggie.

And if you think that Princess Liz is going to marry someone without a quick trip around the bedroom, you are nuts. European history is filled with destroyed dynasties because of assorted sexual problems.

oyalty

I was going to say the problems were mostly in the male line, then I remembered how truly inbred the European royalty was. Not just the main houses (Hapsburgs, Orleans, etc.), but also down to the Electoral and princely houses of the minor kingdoms and principalities. Which was then aggravated by the Catholic/Protestant split between southern and northern Europe. Not that there weren't the occasional crossing of the Augsberg line (Cuius regio, eius religio), but for the most part, Protestants married Protestants and Catholics married Catholic, with the occasional Orthodox thrown in for variety. So in southern Europe, La Infanta Juana de Leon y Castile shows up way too often to be good for anybody's genome.

ldwechsler wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Just reread QUEEN'S GAMBIT.
Justin is only engaged to Elizebeth but he lives in an apartment at Mount Royal Palace. No doubt conviently close to Elizebeth's room.

Different topics. Likely that with a lot of the mess going on, it is simply easier to have him live at the palace. No biggie.

And if you think that Princess Liz is going to marry someone without a quick trip around the bedroom, you are nuts. European history is filled with destroyed dynasties because of assorted sexual problems.

Given what Weber has told us about Manticoran society, I would be surprised if Princess Elizebeth had been a virgin when she met Justin. I would be even more surprised if they had remained celibate prior to their engagement.

Given security concerns, having a live in fiance mitigates logistical difficulties.

Being the sexual partner of Crown Princess Elizebeth might be exhausting work, but it is a great job if you can get it.

ldwechsler wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Just reread QUEEN'S GAMBIT.
Justin is only engaged to Elizebeth but he lives in an apartment at Mount Royal Palace. No doubt conviently close to Elizebeth's room.

Different topics. Likely that with a lot of the mess going on, it is simply easier to have him live at the palace. No biggie.

And if you think that Princess Liz is going to marry someone without a quick trip around the bedroom, you are nuts. European history is filled with destroyed dynasties because of assorted sexual problems.

TFLYTWNBN wrote:Given what Weber has told us about Manticoran society, I would be surprised if Princess Elizebeth had been a virgin when she met Justin. I would be even more surprised if they had remained celibate prior to their engagement.

Given security concerns, having a live in fiance mitigates logistical difficulties.

Being the sexual partner of Crown Princess Elizebeth might be exhausting work, but it is a great job if you can get it.

Is that colored by the sexual capades of some real life princesses? I wouldn't be surprised if Elizabeth was a virgin before Justin. Not saying I would bet on it, but I wouldn't be surprised. All princesses aren't trollops in training. TITs for short.* It isn't like she could get away long enough to be had in the back seat of a ground car parked at an immense mall. She was only 16.

I've often wondered who was the aggressor in that relationship. I'm the only man in the forum with the balls to secrete the kind of nerve and audacity to ask out a Crown Princess. And that's simply because I jumped anything that moved if it created the sound of a rustling skirt. I'm the only one who'd leave her at the altar too. Marrying a princess is just way too much baggage. Where would Beth even meet a compatible beau? Are there debutante balls held in the Star Kingdom where Commoners are invited?

*TIT is something bandied about in my sisters' social circles since grade school. Usage: "She's a TIT."

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Just reread QUEEN'S GAMBIT.
Justin is only engaged to Elizebeth but he lives in an apartment at Mount Royal Palace. No doubt conviently close to Elizebeth's room.

ldwechsler wrote:Different topics. Likely that with a lot of the mess going on, it is simply easier to have him live at the palace. No biggie.

And if you think that Princess Liz is going to marry someone without a quick trip around the bedroom, you are nuts. European history is filled with destroyed dynasties because of assorted sexual problems.

Given what Weber has told us about Manticoran society, I would be surprised if Princess Elizebeth had been a virgin when she met Justin. I would be even more surprised if they had remained celibate prior to their engagement.

Given security concerns, having a live in fiance mitigates logistical difficulties.

Being the sexual partner of Crown Princess Elizebeth might be exhausting work, but it is a great job if you can get it.

While not wishing to fuel anyone's prurient imagination, please remember that Sphinx is the straitlaced planet of the SKM. Elizabeth was born into the very uppermost ranks of Manticoran society, where the parents try to make darned sure that no one gets his/her life destroyed experimenting with sex without guidance. I think one may safely assume that while Elizabeth's sex life may have been limited when she met Justin, she'd at least been soundly instructed on what happens when. And no one expects an oath of celibacy out of someone of legal age in the SKM, so long as no obligations (like, oh, making sure the heir to the Throne is legitimate) are overlooked. And, again, someone with a treecat bodyguard can usually be pretty damned sure a prospective bed partner doesn't want him/her for the wrong reasons!

runsforcelery wrote:


While not wishing to fuel anyone's prurient imagination, please remember that Sphinx is the straitlaced planet of the SKM. Elizabeth was born into the very uppermost ranks of Manticoran society, where the parents try to make darned sure that no one gets his/her life destroyed experimenting with sex without guidance. I think one may safely assume that while Elizabeth's sex life may have been limited when she met Justin, she'd at least been soundly instructed on what happens when. And no one expects an oath of celibacy out of someone of legal age in the SKM, so long as no obligations (like, oh, making sure the heir to the Throne is legitimate) are overlooked. And, again, someone with a treecat bodyguard can usually be pretty damned sure a prospective bed partner doesn't want him/her for the wrong reasons!

I would respectfully remind the author that Honor Harrington's consenual fling while attending the academy at Saganami island turned out to be a disaster in spite of her bond to Nimitz.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:I would respectfully remind the author that Honor Harrington's consenual fling while attending the academy at Saganami island turned out to be a disaster in spite of her bond to Nimitz.

Not for lack of insight on Nimitz's part, though. Honor just didn't listen!

Kufat wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:I would respectfully remind the author that Honor Harrington's consenual fling while attending the academy at Saganami island turned out to be a disaster in spite of her bond to Nimitz.

Not for lack of insight on Nimitz's part, though. Honor just didn't listen!

Honor was . . . in a bad place when that happened, and as Kufat points out, Nimitz did warn her. I didn't say that being warned about someone's predatory or abusive nature would automatically guarantee that the recipient of the warning would exercise good judgment, only that they could be pretty sure a specific person doesn't want them for the wrong reasons. That's not quite the same as knowing someone does want them for the right reasons. That may well be the same thing, over the long haul, and over that same long haul, the recipient will almost certainly realize that. In the short term, especially when someone is already walking wounded, human beings are fully capable of ignoring the warnings of the smartest, most trustworthy people they know. God knows I've seen that often enough, which is one reason Honor had that particular experience at Saganami. That was certainly not the case with Elizabeth and Justin, however.

runsforcelery wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:I would respectfully remind the author that Honor Harrington's consenual fling while attending the academy at Saganami island turned out to be a disaster in spite of her bond to Nimitz.

Not for lack of insight on Nimitz's part, though. Honor just didn't listen!

Honor was . . . in a bad place when that happened, and as Kufat points out, Nimitz did warn her. I didn't say that being warned about someone's predatory or abusive nature would automatically guarantee that the recipient of the warning would exercise good judgment, only that they could be pretty sure a specific person doesn't want them for the wrong reasons. That's not quite the same as knowing someone does want them for the right reasons. That may well be the same thing, over the long haul, and over that same long haul, the recipient will almost certainly realize that. In the short term, especially when someone is already walking wounded, human beings are fully capable of ignoring the warnings of the smartest, most trustworthy people they know. God knows I've seen that often enough, which is one reason Honor had that particular experience at Saganami. That was certainly not the case with Elizabeth and Justin, however.[/quote]

Chances are, the princess did get a chance to try out Justin. What would have happened if he were unable to perform? Or if they were really incompatible?