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Snippet #13

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Re: Snippet #13
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:48 pm

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Dilandu wrote:The question is Dohlar reaction on West Harchong going in bed with Charis. Despite all current rapprochement, Dohlar clearly wouldn't be happy with another Charisian-influenced territory near the entrance to the Gulf of Dohlar. The strategical disadvantages for Dohlar is just too great, to be ignored.

In current strategical configuration, the Dohlarans could - as soon as they have modern-style navy - threw Charisians out of the Gulf in case of confrontation, and secure their main communication lines. The Charisians do not have any positions to fall back on it nearby. But if they would have Western Harchong, the situation is changed not in favor of Kingdom of Dohlar; the Charisians would have at very least secure anchorages & naval bases where they could recover & from where they could launch a counter-offensive.

So, the Regent would probably have some rather unpleasant discussion with Charisian ambassador...

No. Charis has the Silkiah-Salthar Canal to ship in forces and supplies much more quickly that via the Harchong Narrows. I don't recall any mention of Charis relinquishing their captured territories on Lizard Island and Trove Island. In Short, the Western Gulf may be superfluous to the ICN's needs for force projection anywhere in the gulf of Dohlar.
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Re: Snippet #13
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:24 pm

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gblab wrote:
PeterZ wrote:And in keeping with that theme, we have a United Provinces that will be very defensible, large geographically and well populated, which rebelled against the largest Empire of their world. Now all we need is to find a translation of Runzheng Zhou that results in some variation of Orange.


Well, if we allow for some drift in spelling: 'chéng' can mean 'orange' ...

Ok, then we get into Safehold spelling creativity. :lol:

Seriously, Boisseau really sounds like Belguim. Just as Belgium is the catholic part of the United Provinces, Boisseau likely remains Temple Loyalist. Tieglekamp, Stene, Thomas and De Castro will go through serious upheval and will likely adopt Chraisian Reformism or some variation of reform. Again the parallels abound.
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Re: Snippet #13
Post by cnrd22   » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:03 pm

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Dilandu wrote:The question is Dohlar reaction on West Harchong going in bed with Charis. Despite all current rapprochement, Dohlar clearly wouldn't be happy with another Charisian-influenced territory near the entrance to the Gulf of Dohlar. The strategical disadvantages for Dohlar is just too great, to be ignored.



Dohlar will ally itself with Charis - first unofficially (as long as Charis has a hope of keeping Siddamark on its side, it cannot afford to get too close to Dohlar in public) but when Siddamark will turn enemy, the alliance will become official - there is simply no other credible opponent in World war 2 on Safehold, so I am fairly sure the author is clearly leading us to this reversal of alliances step by step (notice how the main Siddamark allies of Charis are getting eliminated: the main ally in the economy, the house of Qwentyn, destroyed while the Ahrmahk plan has just been announced to help the United Provinces and not Siddamark, the main moral ally, Archbishop Zhasyn dead, so only protector Stohnar really remains and he is not that young anymore after all...)
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Re: Snippet #13
Post by Henry Brown   » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:29 pm

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Dilandu wrote:The question is Dohlar reaction on West Harchong going in bed with Charis. Despite all current rapprochement, Dohlar clearly wouldn't be happy with another Charisian-influenced territory near the entrance to the Gulf of Dohlar. The strategical disadvantages for Dohlar is just too great, to be ignored.

In current strategical configuration, the Dohlarans could - as soon as they have modern-style navy - threw Charisians out of the Gulf in case of confrontation, and secure their main communication lines. The Charisians do not have any positions to fall back on it nearby. But if they would have Western Harchong, the situation is changed not in favor of Kingdom of Dohlar; the Charisians would have at very least secure anchorages & naval bases where they could recover & from where they could launch a counter-offensive.

So, the Regent would probably have some rather unpleasant discussion with Charisian ambassador...


I think it will be some time before Dohlar has a modern style navy that can threaten the ICN. Remember, they captured Dreadnaught. If I remember correctly, they concluded that they could not duplicate it with their current industrial capability. And that was one of the galleons that was cut down to a single deck and then covered with a steel plate. One of the simplest forms of armored warships to build.

Charis already has the City-class ships and the KHVII-class in service. Both of which are quite a bit more capable and powerful than the Dreadnaught. And quite a bit harder to build as well. It is going to be awhile before Dohlar gains the capability to build ships like this.
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Re: Snippet #13
Post by runsforcelery   » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:42 pm

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Henry Brown wrote:
Dilandu wrote:The question is Dohlar reaction on West Harchong going in bed with Charis. Despite all current rapprochement, Dohlar clearly wouldn't be happy with another Charisian-influenced territory near the entrance to the Gulf of Dohlar. The strategical disadvantages for Dohlar is just too great, to be ignored.

In current strategical configuration, the Dohlarans could - as soon as they have modern-style navy - threw Charisians out of the Gulf in case of confrontation, and secure their main communication lines. The Charisians do not have any positions to fall back on it nearby. But if they would have Western Harchong, the situation is changed not in favor of Kingdom of Dohlar; the Charisians would have at very least secure anchorages & naval bases where they could recover & from where they could launch a counter-offensive.

So, the Regent would probably have some rather unpleasant discussion with Charisian ambassador...


I think it will be some time before Dohlar has a modern style navy that can threaten the ICN. Remember, they captured Dreadnaught. If I remember correctly, they concluded that they could not duplicate it with their current industrial capability. And that was one of the galleons that was cut down to a single deck and then covered with a steel plate. One of the simplest forms of armored warships to build.

Charis already has the City-class ships and the KHVII-class in service. Both of which are quite a bit more capable and powerful than the Dreadnaught. And quite a bit harder to build as well. It is going to be awhile before Dohlar gains the capability to build ships like this.



HMS Thunderbolt, Imperial Charisian Navy

Displacement:
13,572 t light; 14,488 t standard; 17,531 t normal; 19,965 t full load

Dimensions:
Length oa: 455'
Length wl: 437'4"
Beam: 76'2"
Normal draft: 26'
Draft (deep): 29'2"

Armament:
6 x 10" / 45 cal BL guns (AP shell wt=505 lbs) in turret on barbette mounts (3x2)
16 x 6" / 45 cal BL guns (AP shell wt=109 lbs) in casemate mounts (8x1 each broadside)


Armour:
Main Belt: 6"
Ends: 2"
Upper Belt: 6"
Deck: 1.5'-2"
Turret face: 6.5"
Turret side: 5"
Turret Roof: 3"
Casemates: 5"
Conning tower: 6"

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, direct drive, 3 shafts = 28.7 kts (25 kts Terran measure)
Range 8,498nm at 17.2 kts (15 kts Terran measure)

Complement:
865

Just sayin' . . . .


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Snippet #13
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:00 am

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runsforcelery wrote:HMS Thunderbolt, Imperial Charisian Navy

Displacement:
13,572 t light; 14,488 t standard; 17,531 t normal; 19,965 t full load

Dimensions:
Length oa: 455'
Length wl: 437'4"
Beam: 76'2"
Normal draft: 26'
Draft (deep): 29'2"

Armament:
6 x 10" / 45 cal BL guns (AP shell wt=505 lbs) in turret on barbette mounts (3x2)
16 x 6" / 45 cal BL guns (AP shell wt=109 lbs) in casemate mounts (8x1 each broadside)


Armour:
Main Belt: 6"
Ends: 2"
Upper Belt: 6"
Deck: 1.5'-2"
Turret face: 6.5"
Turret side: 5"
Turret Roof: 3"
Casemates: 5"
Conning tower: 6"

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, direct drive, 3 shafts = 28.7 kts (25 kts Terran measure)
Range 8,498nm at 17.2 kts (15 kts Terran measure)

Complement:
865

Just sayin' . . . .

Thanks for the data dump, RFC!
OOOOOOHHHHH! Charis will continue to build improvements into their battlewagons! I can't wait to see how they upgrade their cruisers and DDs. Everyone knows Dohlar and South Harchong will invest in PT Boats once they figure out how to propel torpedos.

This looks to have the HMS Lord Nelson's dimensions but with less armor, 6 10" guns rather than 4 12"ers and fewer secondaries. All to add a significant amount of speed and range. As the potential enemies' guns get more powerful, this design can add armor and heavier guns. They'll sacrifice range until the ICN shifts to oil burning boilers.
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Re: Snippet #13
Post by Julia Minor   » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:43 am

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Commander

Posts: 155
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runsforcelery wrote:* * * * * * * * * *

What they’d gotten back had gone so far beyond their expectations—their hopes—that he’d found it difficult to take in, initially at least. In fact, if not for the envoy they’d chosen to extend the offer, he probably wouldn’t have believed it. But when Merlin Athrawes said he spoke for the Emperor and Empress of Charis, that was pretty much that.


For Star Rising's sake, I hope the Emperor doesn't have any spies in what's about to become the United Provinces. Accepting any Charisian envoy would hack Zhyou-Zhwo off, but accepting Merlin as an envoy? The only question is whether he'd send the army or a squad of assassins first.
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Re: Snippet #13
Post by isaac_newton   » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:06 am

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DrakBibliophile wrote:Very Very Good! :D


seconded!

I must admit that I had been expecting South Harchong to be the more liberal chunk... but now it seems not so!
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Re: Snippet #13
Post by isaac_newton   » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:21 pm

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Rear Admiral

Posts: 1182
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Location: Brighton, UK

runsforcelery wrote: ..SNIP..


HMS Thunderbolt, Imperial Charisian Navy

Displacement:
13,572 t light; 14,488 t standard; 17,531 t normal; 19,965 t full load

Dimensions:
Length oa: 455'
Length wl: 437'4"
Beam: 76'2"
Normal draft: 26'
Draft (deep): 29'2"

Armament:
6 x 10" / 45 cal BL guns (AP shell wt=505 lbs) in turret on barbette mounts (3x2)
16 x 6" / 45 cal BL guns (AP shell wt=109 lbs) in casemate mounts (8x1 each broadside)


Armour:
Main Belt: 6"
Ends: 2"
Upper Belt: 6"
Deck: 1.5'-2"
Turret face: 6.5"
Turret side: 5"
Turret Roof: 3"
Casemates: 5"
Conning tower: 6"

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, direct drive, 3 shafts = 28.7 kts (25 kts Terran measure)
Range 8,498nm at 17.2 kts (15 kts Terran measure)

Complement:
865

Just sayin' . . . .



could some kind person compare this with the King Haarolds :-)

I tend to forget this more technical details - though the guns are smaller IIRC
Last edited by isaac_newton on Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Snippet #13
Post by Randomiser   » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:32 pm

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Location: Scotland

HMS Thunderbolt. Oh my! Dilandu isn't going to be a happy bunny! :twisted:
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