Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV role?

Grashtel wrote:

Solly wrote:This may sound strange but the characters that I have set in my head arn't close to anyone real life. It kinda bugged me about Queen of Manticore when I was reading Crown of Slaves to find out she was black. No I'm not racist I always had her as a blonde and it's like half way thru "Oh this is what she looks like by the way" oh I was so upset


Eh whatever, I'll just have her as a blonde I can't imagine her any other way. And Alistar for me is black XD

IIRC the Wintons being black had been mentioned earlier in the series, its just that its not something of any more significance to people in the books than hair colour is to people today so it doesn't get much attention.

Which book and chapter, I may of been so wrapped up in the plot that didn't notice this.

It's mentioned several times when Mike Henke is first introduced that her skin is only a shade lighter than her space-black uniform and that she is cousin to the queen. Now, in a society that is so racially mixed that Gwen, her flag lieutenant can be white and also be a distant relative (honestly at this point in the series I would not surprised if we discovered that Honor is somehow related to the Queen) it's possible that it never occurred that the Queen is black as well.

But again, it's one of those things that's mentioned, but never really stressed. Which is an attitude I hope we get to long before the year 4000.

tjreess wrote:It's mentioned several times when Mike Henke is first introduced that her skin is only a shade lighter than her space-black uniform and that she is cousin to the queen. Now, in a society that is so racially mixed that Gwen, her flag lieutenant can be white and also be a distant relative (honestly at this point in the series I would not surprised if we discovered that Honor is somehow related to the Queen) it's possible that it never occurred that the Queen is black as well.

But again, it's one of those things that's mentioned, but never really stressed. Which is an attitude I hope we get to long before the year 4000.

Remember DuHavel's conversation with Overstegan about Mike Henke and QEIII in SI1

tjreess wrote:It's mentioned several times when Mike Henke is first introduced that her skin is only a shade lighter than her space-black uniform and that she is cousin to the queen. Now, in a society that is so racially mixed that Gwen, her flag lieutenant can be white and also be a distant relative (honestly at this point in the series I would not surprised if we discovered that Honor is somehow related to the Queen) it's possible that it never occurred that the Queen is black as well.

But again, it's one of those things that's mentioned, but never really stressed. Which is an attitude I hope we get to long before the year 4000.

There is a fairly long, somewhat generic description by du Havel.

He shrugged again. "Your Queen Elizabeth bears, at best, an approximate somatic match to the ancient Africans—and that, only if you restrict the comparison to superficial features like skin color. I'm quite sure, for instance, that if you matched her blood characteristics against that recorded for ancient so-called 'races' that they would have little resemblance to the blood characteristics of most Africans of the day. Skin color is especially meaningless, as a genetic indicator, since that's a superficial feature which adapts rapidly to a change in environment. Consider, for instance, the extreme albinism found today on one of the two Mfecane planets—Ndebele, if I recall correctly—despite the fact that the population's ancestors were Bantu."
He brought up his memories of the Queen, from his recent meeting with her. The memories were quite extensive, since the captain was right—it had been a long audience. He and Elizabeth Winton had hit it right off.
"Her hair's not really right, for starters. Very wavy, true, but not much like the tightly kinked hair found in ancient times among most of the tropical ethnic variants. Then, her facial features—especially the nose—are much closer to those which our ancestors would have labeled by the term 'Caucasian' than the term 'Negroid.' And while her skin color is indeed quite lustrous, it's really not the tone you would have found among Africans of the day. It's too light, for one thing, and for another, that definite mahogany tinge is really closer to that of a dark-skinned 'Amerindian'—that was a term used for North American indigenes—than an African."
The crowd seemed to relax. All except Cathy, that is, who was watching him closely. Cathy, unlike the rest, knew exactly how much fury was roiling beneath the surface.
For people who have never experienced it—or never really thought about it—"slavery" is an abstract injustice.
"Not that it would have mattered in the least," he continued, trying to keep from snarling. "Except in the specific abuses she would have suffered. She's quite close enough, I assure you. Except that, with her appearance, she would have been considered what was called a 'mulatto.' Coupled with her youth and good looks, that would most likely have resulted in her being been made the concubine of a slave master, assigned to his bed instead of the fields. That was a common fate for those women known as 'mulattos' at the time. Those of them who weren't sold to brothels and made outright prostitutes."
The strained looks were back. Du Havel favored them with a grin which, alas, he was quite sure was several degrees too savage for proper decorum at such an event. But he couldn't help doing so. It was only with the greatest difficulty that he managed to restrain himself from sticking out his tongue, as the Ballroom killers did when they'd cornered their slaver prey, to show the crowd the genetic markers which Manpower's gengineers had given him while still an embryo.
"Oh, yes. Be sure of it. To see a proper reflection of the phenotype which would have been assigned to a life of back breaking labor, you need to consider the Queen's—what is she, Captain? you're a relative of the royal family, I think—some sort of cousin, I believe. Michelle Henke, I'm referring to. I was introduced to her also, at the audience. I didn't quite catch her military rank—sorry, but I'm just not familiar enough with Manticoran tables of organization to understand the fine points—but I believe it was quite prestigious. And got the feeling, I might add, that the rank resulted from her own accomplishments instead of family pressure or influence."
Oversteegen grunted. "First cousin. Michelle's the daughter of the Queen's aunt. Fifth in line t' the throne, now that her father and brother were assassinated. She's a commodore." He grunted again. In its own way, the sound was as savage as Du Havel's grin. "And I don't know a single naval officer—no servin' line officer, for sure—who thinks she got the rank by pull."
"Yes, her. If I'm not mistaken, her phenotype is much more typical of the House of Winton than the Queen's. Very dark skin, almost a true black. And in her case, the hair is right. Not the facial bone structure, perhaps, although it comes fairly close. But it wouldn't have mattered at all, not with that color of skin. Today's universe assigns her to command navies, and doesn't even think about it. The ancients would have had her doing menial unskilled labor. And, if she was unable to avoid the attentions of the overseer, she would have been raped in a shack instead of a plantation manor house."

I always felt Geena Davis would make an excellent Honor Harrington, although age may be an issue at this point (although I should point out she IS married to a plastic surgeon! :)

Ms. Davis is a tall woman and able to portray a strength and depth of character that would do Honor justice.

Interestingly enough she almost made the Olympic archery team placing 24th out of 300 semi-finalists.

Malvenue wrote:I always felt Geena Davis would make an excellent Honor Harrington, although age may be an issue at this point (although I should point out she IS married to a plastic surgeon! :)

Ms. Davis is a tall woman and able to portray a strength and depth of character that would do Honor justice.

Interestingly enough she almost made the Olympic archery team placing 24th out of 300 semi-finalists.

No doubt due to her lack of archery impediments?

This would certainly help her portray Honor

Thispassage inspired me to pick Halle Berry to play Queen Elizebeth and a younger Pam Grier to play Admiral Henke. It would certainly increase ticket sales.

Thirdbase wrote:

tjreess wrote:It's mentioned several times when Mike Henke is first introduced that her skin is only a shade lighter than her space-black uniform and that she is cousin to the queen. Now, in a society that is so racially mixed that Gwen, her flag lieutenant can be white and also be a distant relative (honestly at this point in the series I would not surprised if we discovered that Honor is somehow related to the Queen) it's possible that it never occurred that the Queen is black as well.

But again, it's one of those things that's mentioned, but never really stressed. Which is an attitude I hope we get to long before the year 4000.

There is a fairly long, somewhat generic description by du Havel.

He shrugged again. "Your Queen Elizabeth bears, at best, an approximate somatic match to the ancient Africans—and that, only if you restrict the comparison to superficial features like skin color. I'm quite sure, for instance, that if you matched her blood characteristics against that recorded for ancient so-called 'races' that they would have little resemblance to the blood characteristics of most Africans of the day. Skin color is especially meaningless, as a genetic indicator, since that's a superficial feature which adapts rapidly to a change in environment. Consider, for instance, the extreme albinism found today on one of the two Mfecane planets—Ndebele, if I recall correctly—despite the fact that the population's ancestors were Bantu."
He brought up his memories of the Queen, from his recent meeting with her. The memories were quite extensive, since the captain was right—it had been a long audience. He and Elizabeth Winton had hit it right off.
"Her hair's not really right, for starters. Very wavy, true, but not much like the tightly kinked hair found in ancient times among most of the tropical ethnic variants. Then, her facial features—especially the nose—are much closer to those which our ancestors would have labeled by the term 'Caucasian' than the term 'Negroid.' And while her skin color is indeed quite lustrous, it's really not the tone you would have found among Africans of the day. It's too light, for one thing, and for another, that definite mahogany tinge is really closer to that of a dark-skinned 'Amerindian'—that was a term used for North American indigenes—than an African."
The crowd seemed to relax. All except Cathy, that is, who was watching him closely. Cathy, unlike the rest, knew exactly how much fury was roiling beneath the surface.
For people who have never experienced it—or never really thought about it—"slavery" is an abstract injustice.
"Not that it would have mattered in the least," he continued, trying to keep from snarling. "Except in the specific abuses she would have suffered. She's quite close enough, I assure you. Except that, with her appearance, she would have been considered what was called a 'mulatto.' Coupled with her youth and good looks, that would most likely have resulted in her being been made the concubine of a slave master, assigned to his bed instead of the fields. That was a common fate for those women known as 'mulattos' at the time. Those of them who weren't sold to brothels and made outright prostitutes."
The strained looks were back. Du Havel favored them with a grin which, alas, he was quite sure was several degrees too savage for proper decorum at such an event. But he couldn't help doing so. It was only with the greatest difficulty that he managed to restrain himself from sticking out his tongue, as the Ballroom killers did when they'd cornered their slaver prey, to show the crowd the genetic markers which Manpower's gengineers had given him while still an embryo.
"Oh, yes. Be sure of it. To see a proper reflection of the phenotype which would have been assigned to a life of back breaking labor, you need to consider the Queen's—what is she, Captain? you're a relative of the royal family, I think—some sort of cousin, I believe. Michelle Henke, I'm referring to. I was introduced to her also, at the audience. I didn't quite catch her military rank—sorry, but I'm just not familiar enough with Manticoran tables of organization to understand the fine points—but I believe it was quite prestigious. And got the feeling, I might add, that the rank resulted from her own accomplishments instead of family pressure or influence."
Oversteegen grunted. "First cousin. Michelle's the daughter of the Queen's aunt. Fifth in line t' the throne, now that her father and brother were assassinated. She's a commodore." He grunted again. In its own way, the sound was as savage as Du Havel's grin. "And I don't know a single naval officer—no servin' line officer, for sure—who thinks she got the rank by pull."
"Yes, her. If I'm not mistaken, her phenotype is much more typical of the House of Winton than the Queen's. Very dark skin, almost a true black. And in her case, the hair is right. Not the facial bone structure, perhaps, although it comes fairly close. But it wouldn't have mattered at all, not with that color of skin. Today's universe assigns her to command navies, and doesn't even think about it. The ancients would have had her doing menial unskilled labor. And, if she was unable to avoid the attentions of the overseer, she would have been raped in a shack instead of a plantation manor house."

I'd have to go with Stana Katic, who plays Det. Kate Beckett in "Castle".

How about Koyuki?

She was in The Last Samurai and you may also know her from playing Onigen in Blood: The Last Vampire.

I think she could play Honor Harrington.

Thirdbase wrote:

tjreess wrote:It's mentioned several times when Mike Henke is first introduced that her skin is only a shade lighter than her space-black uniform and that she is cousin to the queen. Now, in a society that is so racially mixed that Gwen, her flag lieutenant can be white and also be a distant relative (honestly at this point in the series I would not surprised if we discovered that Honor is somehow related to the Queen) it's possible that it never occurred that the Queen is black as well.

But again, it's one of those things that's mentioned, but never really stressed. Which is an attitude I hope we get to long before the year 4000.

There is a fairly long, somewhat generic description by du Havel.

He shrugged again. "Your Queen Elizabeth bears, at best, an approximate somatic match to the ancient Africans—and that, only if you restrict the comparison to superficial features like skin color. I'm quite sure, for instance, that if you matched her blood characteristics against that recorded for ancient so-called 'races' that they would have little resemblance to the blood characteristics of most Africans of the day. Skin color is especially meaningless, as a genetic indicator, since that's a superficial feature which adapts rapidly to a change in environment. Consider, for instance, the extreme albinism found today on one of the two Mfecane planets—Ndebele, if I recall correctly—despite the fact that the population's ancestors were Bantu."
He brought up his memories of the Queen, from his recent meeting with her. The memories were quite extensive, since the captain was right—it had been a long audience. He and Elizabeth Winton had hit it right off.
"Her hair's not really right, for starters. Very wavy, true, but not much like the tightly kinked hair found in ancient times among most of the tropical ethnic variants. Then, her facial features—especially the nose—are much closer to those which our ancestors would have labeled by the term 'Caucasian' than the term 'Negroid.' And while her skin color is indeed quite lustrous, it's really not the tone you would have found among Africans of the day. It's too light, for one thing, and for another, that definite mahogany tinge is really closer to that of a dark-skinned 'Amerindian'—that was a term used for North American indigenes—than an African."
The crowd seemed to relax. All except Cathy, that is, who was watching him closely. Cathy, unlike the rest, knew exactly how much fury was roiling beneath the surface.
For people who have never experienced it—or never really thought about it—"slavery" is an abstract injustice.
"Not that it would have mattered in the least," he continued, trying to keep from snarling. "Except in the specific abuses she would have suffered. She's quite close enough, I assure you. Except that, with her appearance, she would have been considered what was called a 'mulatto.' Coupled with her youth and good looks, that would most likely have resulted in her being been made the concubine of a slave master, assigned to his bed instead of the fields. That was a common fate for those women known as 'mulattos' at the time. Those of them who weren't sold to brothels and made outright prostitutes."
The strained looks were back. Du Havel favored them with a grin which, alas, he was quite sure was several degrees too savage for proper decorum at such an event. But he couldn't help doing so. It was only with the greatest difficulty that he managed to restrain himself from sticking out his tongue, as the Ballroom killers did when they'd cornered their slaver prey, to show the crowd the genetic markers which Manpower's gengineers had given him while still an embryo.
"Oh, yes. Be sure of it. To see a proper reflection of the phenotype which would have been assigned to a life of back breaking labor, you need to consider the Queen's—what is she, Captain? you're a relative of the royal family, I think—some sort of cousin, I believe. Michelle Henke, I'm referring to. I was introduced to her also, at the audience. I didn't quite catch her military rank—sorry, but I'm just not familiar enough with Manticoran tables of organization to understand the fine points—but I believe it was quite prestigious. And got the feeling, I might add, that the rank resulted from her own accomplishments instead of family pressure or influence."
Oversteegen grunted. "First cousin. Michelle's the daughter of the Queen's aunt. Fifth in line t' the throne, now that her father and brother were assassinated. She's a commodore." He grunted again. In its own way, the sound was as savage as Du Havel's grin. "And I don't know a single naval officer—no servin' line officer, for sure—who thinks she got the rank by pull."
"Yes, her. If I'm not mistaken, her phenotype is much more typical of the House of Winton than the Queen's. Very dark skin, almost a true black. And in her case, the hair is right. Not the facial bone structure, perhaps, although it comes fairly close. But it wouldn't have mattered at all, not with that color of skin. Today's universe assigns her to command navies, and doesn't even think about it. The ancients would have had her doing menial unskilled labor. And, if she was unable to avoid the attentions of the overseer, she would have been raped in a shack instead of a plantation manor house."

Hi Thirdbase,

WEB Du Havel's description of Elisabeth III reminded me more of Polynesian royalty, and trust me Polynesian royalty can run the gamut in being royal, as well as the color spectrum.

Mike's darker shade was mentioned the first time we meet her in #3, TSVW; so I'm surprised people overlooked it so easily when its been almost her descriptor.

Personally, the color spectrum and marrying a commoner adds some interest to maintaining the Winton gene pool somehow. :-)

Best to all,

L