Immigration rather than conquest?

Two issues here: Manticoran vote and system capture.

Your millions of immigrants would not get the vote until they got off the dole for at least five consecutive years. And the better economic system in Manticore would capture most of the Dolist drones, meaning by the time they got the vote they'd be disinclined to vote for a Havenesque Dolist system.

Galactic Sapper wrote:Two issues here: Manticoran vote and system capture.

Your millions of immigrants would not get the vote until they got off the dole for at least five consecutive years. And the better economic system in Manticore would capture most of the Dolist drones, meaning by the time they got the vote they'd be disinclined to vote for a Havenesque Dolist system.

It is a comforting philosophy. The idea is no doubt inspired by US history where almost all immigrants were in fact the most ambitious of the lower classes who were impoverished because they lived in a society with extreme economic stratification imposed by the government. While the existance of the Dolist class suggests it, wehave seen no text evidence that Haven had any legal barriers such as confiscatory tax rates that would dissuade much less prevent its Dolists from thriving if they were willing to work hard. However; there are plenty of historical examples of large subsets of populations who are living in free and vibrant economies with free schools yet remain uneducated and on public assistance for generations. A cultural presumption that they are entitled to free stuff at other people's expense dissuades them from getting off their asses and working for a living. There are also multigenerational criminal families who pass on the presumption that they are entitled to steal, rob, rape and murder. (I know one such family that is lilly white caucasian who claim to vote Republican). Haven's welfare state has endured for centuries and persisted even before prolong. Such a system is going to leave an almost indelible imprint on its dependant class.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Haven's welfare state has endured for centuries and persisted even before prolong. Such a system is going to leave an almost indelible imprint on its dependant class.

Do we know whether the revived Haven Constitution contains the "Economic Bill of Rights" (declaring that all of its citizens have an "unalienable right" to a relative standard of living)? I assume that it does not.

Manticore could respond by offerring free health care for the illegal immigrants that Haven literally dumps on them. Every immigrant would be given a vasectomey or tubal ligation, depending upon gender, as well as an abortion if pregnant. Howmuch you bet that Haven would find it more difficult to recruit immigrants.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Manticore could respond by offerring free health care for the illegal immigrants that Haven literally dumps on them. Every immigrant would be given a vasectomey or tubal ligation, depending upon gender, as well as an abortion if pregnant. Howmuch you bet that Haven would find it more difficult to recruit immigrants.

Until the Manticorian version of the ACLU sues the Manticorian government that mass sterilization is constituent with genocide of the Havenite genome and blocks the action, but still allows the Havenites entry.

Not to pull politics/current events out of the box, but there is a legal precedent which would be referred to.

Theemile wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Manticore could respond by offerring free health care for the illegal immigrants that Haven literally dumps on them. Every immigrant would be given a vasectomey or tubal ligation, depending upon gender, as well as an abortion if pregnant. Howmuch you bet that Haven would find it more difficult to recruit immigrants.

Until the Manticorian version of the ACLU sues the Manticorian government that mass sterilization is constituent with genocide of the Havenite genome and blocks the action, but still allows the Havenites entry.

Not to pull politics/current events out of the box, but there is a legal precedent which would be referred to.

Uh Oh.

What is the statute of limitations on castrating someone without their consent?