[Spoilers] Axelrod and the Manticore Wormhole Junction

So the combat differential went bad and spit out the axel rods.

russdm wrote:So, I have all the books, and have read them. That said, there is still one that item that continues to bug me heavily.

1) What exactly was Axelrod's plan really supposed to accomplish, that it could not from bringing the existence of the MWJ to Manticore and negotiating a control or favored relationship with the young entity? Due to their relative positions of strength, Axelrod would have had a very good bargaining position to work with.

I haven't read Vengeance yet, but I can't see what Axelrod could possibly have offered Manticore from the start. Warships? The RMN had more than it used. Technology, finance, supplementary colonists? The Manticore Colony Trust Ltd back on Earth provides these.

Evidence of a wormhole is valuable, yes, but once the merest hint is dropped regarding one, the Manticoran government could begin to search for it and assert exclusive ownership of it, as well as anything found beyond. They might, out of gratitude, give Axelrod something like one percent of transit fees for a century.

Because of the MCT and the RMN's unusual strength, even if in deplorable condition, Axelrod was actually in a weak bargaining position. Opening negotiations at all could have resulted in the RMN pulling more ships out of reserves, making the brute force route even more difficult.

munroburton wrote:

russdm wrote:So, I have all the books, and have read them. That said, there is still one that item that continues to bug me heavily.

1) What exactly was Axelrod's plan really supposed to accomplish, that it could not from bringing the existence of the MWJ to Manticore and negotiating a control or favored relationship with the young entity? Due to their relative positions of strength, Axelrod would have had a very good bargaining position to work with.

I haven't read Vengeance yet, but I can't see what Axelrod could possibly have offered Manticore from the start. Warships? The RMN had more than it used. Technology, finance, supplementary colonists? The Manticore Colony Trust Ltd back on Earth provides these.

Evidence of a wormhole is valuable, yes, but once the merest hint is dropped regarding one, the Manticoran government could begin to search for it and assert exclusive ownership of it, as well as anything found beyond. They might, out of gratitude, give Axelrod something like one percent of transit fees for a century.

Because of the MCT and the RMN's unusual strength, even if in deplorable condition, Axelrod was actually in a weak bargaining position. Opening negotiations at all could have resulted in the RMN pulling more ships out of reserves, making the brute force route even more difficult.

Not to mention, alarming Manticore could have Manticore using the MCT to actively recruit for the RMN on Terra again; within 18 months, the RMN could have full crews of Solarian Navy retirees for all it's ships. Manticore's biggest impediment is the Trust is on Terra, and difficult to use - and Manticore's conservative politics want to make sure it is kept for the rainiest day possible. Anything that might upend that mindset on Manticore is bad Axelrod.

As was mentioned in the books, the trust has the money to purchase the hardware to update Manticore's shipyards and make them able to produce advanced reactors and nodes. Only Politics are holding such a venture back. If the political climate were to change and the purse strings open, Manticore becomes stronger, and that would be bad for Axelrod.

Theemile wrote:
Not to mention, alarming Manticore could have Manticore using the MCT to actively recruit for the RMN on Terra again; within 18 months, the RMN could have full crews of Solarian Navy retirees for all it's ships. Manticore's biggest impediment is the Trust is on Terra, and difficult to use - and Manticore's conservative politics want to make sure it is kept for the rainiest day possible. Anything that might upend that mindset on Manticore is bad Axelrod.

As was mentioned in the books, the trust has the money to purchase the hardware to update Manticore's shipyards and make them able to produce advanced reactors and nodes. Only Politics are holding such a venture back. If the political climate were to change and the purse strings open, Manticore becomes stronger, and that would be bad for Axelrod.

Is there still money in the MCT after the immigration programm following the plague?

Hornblower wrote:

Theemile wrote:
Not to mention, alarming Manticore could have Manticore using the MCT to actively recruit for the RMN on Terra again; within 18 months, the RMN could have full crews of Solarian Navy retirees for all it's ships. Manticore's biggest impediment is the Trust is on Terra, and difficult to use - and Manticore's conservative politics want to make sure it is kept for the rainiest day possible. Anything that might upend that mindset on Manticore is bad Axelrod.

As was mentioned in the books, the trust has the money to purchase the hardware to update Manticore's shipyards and make them able to produce advanced reactors and nodes. Only Politics are holding such a venture back. If the political climate were to change and the purse strings open, Manticore becomes stronger, and that would be bad for Axelrod.

Is there still money in the MCT after the immigration programm following the plague?

Simple answer is "yes". There are those on Manticore who are planning to use it to fund the ability to manufacture nodes, hyperspace generators and fusion plants.

Second question: What is the status of the MCT by say the first quarter of the second millennium PD? Is it still extant? The Mandarins, at least, don't see any value in holding it hostage during their contretemps with SKM/SEM.

Fox2! wrote:Second question: What is the status of the MCT by say the first quarter of the second millennium PD? Is it still extant? The Mandarins, at least, don't see any value in holding it hostage during their contretemps with SKM/SEM.

Found the answer in HoS.

The MCT remains in existence even today, managing Manticoran economic and governmental affairs on Old Terra, although it is no longer the financial mega-giant it once was.

It also seems that the bulk of the old MCT was used to capitalize the Royal Bank of Manticore, possibly shortly after the first wormhole transit to Beowulf.

Hornblower wrote:Is there still money in the MCT after the immigration programm following the plague?

That post-plague immigration program may have cost the MCT almost nothing. "Each immigrant received a land rights credit, the value of which precisely equaled the cost of a second-class passenger ticket from his planet of origin to Manticore. Any individual capable of paying his own passage received the full credit upon arrival."

They basically sold land to finance this immigration wave. Depending what the breakdown between zero-balancers and yeomen was, the MCT might even have made a profit after paying for the colonists' transport.

JohnRoth wrote:So the combat differential went bad and spit out the axel rods.

Great Pun!

munroburton wrote:

Fox2! wrote:Second question: What is the status of the MCT by say the first quarter of the second millennium PD? Is it still extant? The Mandarins, at least, don't see any value in holding it hostage during their contretemps with SKM/SEM.

Found the answer in HoS.

The MCT remains in existence even today, managing Manticoran economic and governmental affairs on Old Terra, although it is no longer the financial mega-giant it once was.

It also seems that the bulk of the old MCT was used to capitalize the Royal Bank of Manticore, possibly shortly after the first wormhole transit to Beowulf.

Hornblower wrote:Is there still money in the MCT after the immigration programm following the plague?

That post-plague immigration program may have cost the MCT almost nothing. "Each immigrant received a land rights credit, the value of which precisely equaled the cost of a second-class passenger ticket from his planet of origin to Manticore. Any individual capable of paying his own passage received the full credit upon arrival."

They basically sold land to finance this immigration wave. Depending what the breakdown between zero-balancers and yeomen was, the MCT might even have made a profit after paying for the colonists' transport.

They even sold swamp land on the Southern Penissula as well as frozen over land on the Copper Wall Mountains of Sphynx to the most gullable.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

JohnRoth wrote:So the combat differential went bad and spit out the axel rods.

Great Pun!

Thank you! I mean Axelrod was begging for something, but it still took work, especially since I'm not a car person, so it was a while before the word differential dawned on me.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:They even sold swamp land on the Southern Penissula as well as frozen over land on the Copper Wall Mountains of Sphynx to the most gullable.

Sounds like some of the great Florida land [s]swindles[/s] deals.