BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA

TheMadPenguin wrote:

cthia wrote:Every time I yell treason, all of you come at me with pitchforks. But how was Beowulf's actions not treasonous?

1: There was no war declared. Therefore no treason against the League.
2: Passing news of the unlawful 400-waller invasion to attempt to prevent another Spindle, or to mitigate the totality of destruction to anybody/everybody, is not treason. It's letting the US know that an army of Cartel gunman is coming to take control of the US/Mex border. Manticore must know of the not-at-war strike force coming to commit acts of war, or there is a betrayed friendship.

cthia wrote:They were married to the League and found a new boyfriend. But you've got the obligation to end your previous relationship properly.

There was more intermarriage between Manticore and Beowulf than between Beowulf and Sol.

cthia wrote:Treason is not the note you should end your previous relationship on. It's a total act of disrespect.

This mirrors to the campaign of violence and disrespect shown by the Mandarins, the League, and Sol towards Beowulf and SKM/SEM.

Flag in Exile Ch. 29 wrote:The events in Harrington Steading hung heavy in their minds. Fifty hours had passed since the first stunning reports, and still all they knew were rumors. But what had been ordered as a closed session of the Keys had become something else, and holo-vid cameras rimmed the Spectators' Gallery above them, waiting to carry whatever was to transpire here to every HD in the star system.

snip

Benjamin Mayhew sat on his throne and watched shock smash through the Conclave. He watched the first total disbelief change, saw its numb anesthesia vanish into the awareness of loss, into pain and a soul-deep rage he knew was mirrored in the face of every person watching the HD broadcast of this Conclave session,

snip

Flag in Exile Ch. 29 wrote:The events in Harrington Steading hung heavy in their minds. Fifty hours had passed since the first stunning reports, and still all they knew were rumors. But what had been ordered as a closed session of the Keys had become something else, and holo-vid cameras rimmed the Spectators' Gallery above them, waiting to carry whatever was to transpire here to every HD in the star system.

snip

Benjamin Mayhew sat on his throne and watched shock smash through the Conclave. He watched the first total disbelief change, saw its numb anesthesia vanish into the awareness of loss, into pain and a soul-deep rage he knew was mirrored in the face of every person watching the HD broadcast of this Conclave session,

snip

cthia wrote:This is the tactic I envisioned in my head of Beowulf using against the Mandarins to oust them in public. I can also imagine the resolution on high definition (HD) screens in the Honorverse showing high resolution images of the intact defenses in the MBS. I can't imagine the lucrative SEM not having its own broadcast channel on Old Terra.

n7axw wrote:

cthia wrote:I don't know how to break this to you all. But just like in another thread, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Indeed Bob. You have a point, many of them. The post is well laid out and articulated and I agree with you all. Except that...

You are making the same mistake as many do when I argue a stance. You are making it personal about me.

I am not arguing cthia's position, I am arguing the League's position. Also, I understand the difference of the League compared to the U.S., and member states and allies. However, not one of our allies, who would object to us attacking North Korea, would turn traitorous. They may refuse to join in, but that would be the limit of their objection.

Many of you are overlooking the unspoken and implied obligations Beowulf has to the League, when they joined. When the League went to Beowulf and laid its cards on the table, perhaps Beowulf could have been conscientious objectors. But it must end there. I'm looking at this thing from the SLN's point of view. Not Beowulf's, not the RMN's, not RFC's readers or cthia. Because the punishment meted out onto Beowulf, will not come from either of us. It will come from the SLN.

Cthia is not arguing any legal or moral high grounds that the League has to stand on, for cthia's sake. Nor does he charge a positively, absolute transgression in either area.* However, I am positing that in the Mandarins eyes, transgressions against the League were made in both areas. Beowulf knew exactly how the League would perceive their actions, and how they'd respond. Beowulf knows exactly what kind of entity the gorilla is. They know for a fact that the League would perceive their actions as traitorous. Not CTHIA, the LEAGUE!

If there had been an EE violation and the SLN was dispatched to deal with the devil, it would have been treasonous of Beowulf to alert the devils the gorilla was coming. Just because they don't believe in a cause is no free pass to turn into rats.

If Grayson or the RMN did the same thing to each other, it would be traitorous. Erewhon was a free agent working with the RMN. That wasn't the same relationship. The same loyalty was not unspoken or implied.

The relationship of Beowulf with the League was unspoken and implied. Certainly in the SLN's mind, where it counts... since Beowulf was leaving and ratting the SLN out, not RFC or any of his readers. There is an 800# difference. If Beowulf would have sold the RMN out, Beowulf would have been labeled traitors even though there was no legal papers between the two.

* What cthia personally thinks is that Beowulf handled it wrongly. They know exactly what type of entity their previous masters are. If they were going to alert the RMN that the juggernaut was coming, it should also have alerted the juggernaut—full of innocent officers following orders—that the Manties knew they were coming. Man up and admit "WE TOLD THEM. THEY ARE PREPARED TO RECEIVE YOU!"

That is where cthia draws the line.

The League is not, nor never was, Beowulf's "master." Beowulf was a sovereign nation in its own right with all of the rights, perogatives and responsibilities normally associated with that.

Don

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