Stuff you just can't make up

Apparently the OK sign now means White Power in much the same way that a raised fist meant Black Power.
You can see some of the commentary just here.

...whatisthisidon'teven...

Michael Everett wrote:Apparently the OK sign now means White Power in much the same way that a raised fist meant Black Power.

If white power people keep using a sign, does it turn that sign into a white power symbol?

If people in very weird places keep using it, and if it turns out that the people using that sign were actually white supremacists, what does that mean?

Look, Michael, I understand the confusion. It's just like in the 30s, when suddenly Swastikas were a bad thing. Or just a couple years ago, when a cartoon frog became a signal. These things happen.

Here, have some history.

“Another advantage of using innocuous symbols,” Wynn continues, “is that when leftists try to point those symbols out, the fascists can always say, ‘These gullible SJWs now think that even the OK sign is racist. Is there anything they *don’t* think is racist?’”

Sounds familiar, doesn't it, Michael.

E, I admit that the article you linked to was interesting and my respect for the leftists has decreased with regards to how pavlovian they appear to be.

It is sad that the left (especially the extreme left) seems to be so easily baited and prone to over-reaction. Antifa (which claims to be an Anti Fascism group), for example, has been caught on video on many occasions instigating violence against counter-protesters, police and even passers-by. It has been noted that Antifa is such an effective tool for the right wing that if it didn't exist, the right would have had to create it.

Part of the problem with signs is that as each sign is identified and outlawed, more are created in response. Trying to stop this is somewhat akin to attempting to nail jelly to the wall. While theoretically possible, you are far, far more likely to end up with a mess on the floor and a wall that needs totally rebuilding.

However, simply noting just who uses signs can help to guide legal attention to those most likely to go that one step further and actively break the law, thus pre-positioning the enforcers to be able to move in before any real damage is done.

Alternatively, you could always re-hijack the sign and claim it's being used by a different group. I'm sure the right-wing trolls would drop it really quickly if someone manages to re-brand it as being an ISIS/DAESH symbol or similar.

Michael Everett wrote:E, I admit that the article you linked to was interesting and my respect for the leftists has decreased with regards to how pavlovian they appear to be.

I do not know how old you are, but one thing I noticed among people of my age, who were growing up when South Park was a big thing and something formative, is a deplorable tendency to engage in one-downsmanship where the person who cares least wins.

You win, because you don't care about what the current shibboleths on the right are.
You win, because you don't care to know how or why people do this.
You win, because you don't think these things are big deals, and anyone who does is an annoying busybody.

It is sad that the left (especially the extreme left) seems to be so easily baited and prone to over-reaction.

It is sad that the right (especially the extreme right) seems to be so capable of making itself seem like the reasonable choice amongst those who do not care.

Antifa (which claims to be an Anti Fascism group), for example, has been caught on video on many occasions instigating violence against counter-protesters, police and even passers-by. It has been noted that Antifa is such an effective tool for the right wing that if it didn't exist, the right would have had to create it.

I am not going to claim that we don't have idiots on our side too; People so overzealous in their crusade against the forces of idiocy, of racism, greed and hate, that they become themselves idiots.

But you do know, do you not, that these extremist positions are not common positions, right? Unlike the american right, which has been thoroughly undermined and instrumentalized by bigots and zealots and corporate interests, there's a movement on the left that is actually about making people's lives better.
I'm a communist, myself. Proper, fully blown communist. But I am realist enough to know that the fullness of the communist vision is unattainable now, so I will settle for something achievable, like stable social democracy.

Most of us on the "extreme left" are the same.

Part of the problem with signs is that as each sign is identified and outlawed, more are created in response. Trying to stop this is somewhat akin to attempting to nail jelly to the wall. While theoretically possible, you are far, far more likely to end up with a mess on the floor and a wall that needs totally rebuilding.

And again: You win. You care the least.

What are we to do, then? If someone signals his membership in an ideology antithetical to modern civilization, are we to just let them live quietly?

In short, answer this: Does freedom of speech (which these gestures and signals fall under) mean freedom of consequence?

However, simply noting just who uses signs can help to guide legal attention to those most likely to go that one step further and actively break the law, thus pre-positioning the enforcers to be able to move in before any real damage is done.

Alternatively, you could always re-hijack the sign and claim it's being used by a different group. I'm sure the right-wing trolls would drop it really quickly if someone manages to re-brand it as being an ISIS/DAESH symbol or similar.

That is not how these things work, unfortunately. And as long as people like you choose to ignore things, choose to not care about warnings being raised by those too annoying to you to take seriously, they will continue to work that way.

An Avowed Communist....no wonder I think your intellectual idiot. By your ideological thinking the State is right. So why are going against the State (Trump)? I get it...he's a capitalist. No wonder you are so unhappy in life: no morals, the State is always right, and no belief in God. My ex-wife would be looking to castrate your damn butt. She is German and hates all Communists. I be happy to introduce her to you, she lives in Frankfurt.

The E wrote:

Michael Everett wrote:E, I admit that the article you linked to was interesting and my respect for the leftists has decreased with regards to how pavlovian they appear to be.

I do not know how old you are, but one thing I noticed among people of my age, who were growing up when South Park was a big thing and something formative, is a deplorable tendency to engage in one-downsmanship where the person who cares least wins.

You win, because you don't care about what the current shibboleths on the right are.
You win, because you don't care to know how or why people do this.
You win, because you don't think these things are big deals, and anyone who does is an annoying busybody.

It is sad that the left (especially the extreme left) seems to be so easily baited and prone to over-reaction.

It is sad that the right (especially the extreme right) seems to be so capable of making itself seem like the reasonable choice amongst those who do not care.

Antifa (which claims to be an Anti Fascism group), for example, has been caught on video on many occasions instigating violence against counter-protesters, police and even passers-by. It has been noted that Antifa is such an effective tool for the right wing that if it didn't exist, the right would have had to create it.

I am not going to claim that we don't have idiots on our side too; People so overzealous in their crusade against the forces of idiocy, of racism, greed and hate, that they become themselves idiots.

But you do know, do you not, that these extremist positions are not common positions, right? Unlike the american right, which has been thoroughly undermined and instrumentalized by bigots and zealots and corporate interests, there's a movement on the left that is actually about making people's lives better.
I'm a communist, myself. Proper, fully blown communist. But I am realist enough to know that the fullness of the communist vision is unattainable now, so I will settle for something achievable, like stable social democracy.

Most of us on the "extreme left" are the same.

Part of the problem with signs is that as each sign is identified and outlawed, more are created in response. Trying to stop this is somewhat akin to attempting to nail jelly to the wall. While theoretically possible, you are far, far more likely to end up with a mess on the floor and a wall that needs totally rebuilding.

And again: You win. You care the least.

What are we to do, then? If someone signals his membership in an ideology antithetical to modern civilization, are we to just let them live quietly?

In short, answer this: Does freedom of speech (which these gestures and signals fall under) mean freedom of consequence?

However, simply noting just who uses signs can help to guide legal attention to those most likely to go that one step further and actively break the law, thus pre-positioning the enforcers to be able to move in before any real damage is done.

Alternatively, you could always re-hijack the sign and claim it's being used by a different group. I'm sure the right-wing trolls would drop it really quickly if someone manages to re-brand it as being an ISIS/DAESH symbol or similar.

That is not how these things work, unfortunately. And as long as people like you choose to ignore things, choose to not care about warnings being raised by those too annoying to you to take seriously, they will continue to work that way.

smr wrote:An Avowed Communist....no wonder I think your intellectual idiot. By your ideological thinking the State is right.

You know, I joke a lot about people like you not knowing what communism is, but to have that ignorance so openly on display?

So why are going against the State (Trump)?

Because he represents the complete failure of capitalism and american democracy.

I get it...he's a capitalist. No wonder you are so unhappy in life: no morals, the State is always right, and no belief in God.

Hey, you're the one who claims to have been or are in a relationship with a survivor of sexual abuse while supporting a sexual abuser.
You're the one claiming to be a multiracial "mutt" supporting a nationalist, racist government.

As far as my morals go, I do not have to compromise them on a daily basis. So I'm doing fine in that regard, with or without god, thanks for asking.

My ex-wife would be looking to castrate your damn butt. She is German and hates all Communists. I be happy to introduce her to you, she lives in Frankfurt.

Which one? You know, while you're making stuff up.

EDIT: Come to think of it, what sort of argument is "My ex-wife is from your country and she hates your political position (despite me not knowing what that position is)!", exactly? I am not sure what that is supposed to achieve, exactly.

@theE
Have a great life, I pray for your salvation! I only thing worst in my opinion is being a Satanist!

https://gifer.com/5bo2

smr wrote:@theE
Have a great life, I pray for your salvation!

https://gifer.com/5bo2

We both know you can't keep that promise.

I now know that I'm a centrist, a little to the left perhaps but closer to the middle than the extreme.
To read The E saying he is an avowed full blown communist, then smr saying that means he is a Satanist with no morals, is somewhat comical.

To my thinking both of you have flawed world views.
From his posts it is obvious that The E has a strong moral code, doesn't even believe in Satan let alone actually be a satanist. I truly doubt that he really is a communist, as they are much more hard line, and fixed in their views.
As to smr, somewhat contradictory to say that you will pray for The E, yet to be so insulting in your replies. Either you care and will pray for him, or you don't care and will be rude to him. Coming from a secular society I do find public mentions of personal religion to be strange.

Daryl wrote: I truly doubt that he really is a communist, as they are much more hard line, and fixed in their views.

To be a communist in the 21st century means something different than being a communist in the 20th. We all saw the hideous failures of communism in Russia, China and the GDR; we all saw how easy it is to derail the communist train into oligarchies and tyrannies. If we refused to learn from these mistakes, we would be fools.
For myself, I believe the fundamental creed of communism ("From each according to their ability to each according to their need") is still valid. It's something most families practice every day; it can even work in larger communities.
But it doesn't scale, because compassion doesn't scale. We can't care about every human being on the planet, we can't even care about the inhabitants of our city, not on an emotional level. So , to really, properly do a communism, we need to scale back. We don't want or need to replace the post-westphalian nation state, but we can make it work for the people in it rather than the rich and powerful. We are, to put it bluntly, back at square one of the communist revolution: The workers have no power, have no equity in the means of production and are utterly dependant on capitalists for their basic needs. They are subject to alien forces whose actions are inscrutable to the people at the bottom (Just try to explain why Toys'R'Us failed!). The state is supposed to act as an equalizing force, protecting its citizens and guaranteeing certain securities, and right now, most western democracies are failing in that task. Some harder than others, some only barely, but fail they do under the onslaught of "the free market". So, we need to correct the course, before it's too late. The tenets of social democracy, of true social market economy, are the most realistically achievable ways to get there, and so that's what I am supporting in elections.

But, if I had even a sliver of hope that true communism, a true egalitarian, classless society was possible in this lifetime? I would be jumping on board real quick.