When did Honor become the MVP?

Galactic Sapper wrote:

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:IIRC, Michelle was senior to Honor before the events of _On Basilisk Station_. The double promotion put Honor ahead, where she has stayed.

Correct. SVW states that the two had last seen each other 6 years before Honor comes aboard Nike and Henke had been senior to her at that point - presumably due to Henke being promoted at the typical speed of non-connected officers which she'd insist on while Honor was held back somewhat by various North Hollow allies in the Navy. I'm assuming that meant the two were the same grade but Henke was senior by date of rank. Of course, by the time the two meet again Honor is two ranks senior to Henke and stays so (or more) until Henke is promoted to full admiral in SoF.

cthia wrote:Is that true? I think you may be correct. Michelle was already in the navy when Honor got there? ISTR something about her taking Honor under her wing. Did someone formally ask that of Michelle?

The two were in the same class at the academy. What was expected when the staff paired them was that Henke would help Honor develop political awareness and social skills while Honor helped Henke in more technical areas and tactics.

Henke was tutoring Honor on math so I don't think that she was weak in technical areas.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:In my warped brain, she became the MVP the moment the Havenites began to fear her. Boogeyman? Salamander? Honor kept the Peeps honest. Her value was priceless then.

The earliest mention of her being the "Salamander", that I can find, is in Chapter 8 of Honor Among Enemies. Is that right?

"My God," Aubrey murmured. He warned himself not to get too excited. After all, Lady Harrington had been all but forcibly banished after her scandalous duels. It was entirely possible she was being shuffled off to exactly the sort of oblivion Aubrey had assumed this assignment must be, but he couldn't believe it. The woman the newsies had dubbed "the Salamander" from her habit of always being where the fire was hottest was too good a combat commander for that. And it hadn't exactly been the Navy's idea to put her on half-pay to begin with. If the Fleet had her back again, surely they'd want to make the best use they could of her!

Since that is early in the book, it still supports Flag in Exile.

I think your Flag In Exile bid is a really good contender. It is backed up by critical moments in the following novel, Honor Among Enemies. In Honor Among Enemies Honor won over Hauptman and tipped the balance of the political arena against her and stacked the deck more so in her own favor. Politics began to lose its sting against her then, having the Hauptmans in her corner. Stacy spearheaded that. Having your bacon saved by the woman you hate, along with your daughter, after what you tried to do to her, just might do the trick to win you over too.

In Enemy Hands saw her dressing down the WDB and chastizing Hamish. Which I'll take as a clue the moment she surpassed him. Or at least evidence of it. LOL

Which also could be attributed to FiE as well.

I owe an apology. As early as SVW, Honor was given Nike, considered the pride of the RMN. Dunno why I thought Nike was much later in the series.

I concur the Geiger counter is reading hot nearing Flag In Exile.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

cthia wrote:

I also smile when I think about Honor's gawky stage while hanging around a well developed Henke. How could it not have appeared like Henke was babysitting?

Talk about an odd couple.

Don't get me started thinking about a well developed Henke!

Of course prolong probably had a humiliating effect on young men who arrived at Saganami Island still looking prepubescent in the showers.

Quite humiliating.

cthia wrote:

Don't get me started thinking about a well developed Henke!

Of course prolong probably had a humiliating effect on young men who arrived at Saganami Island still looking prepubescent in the showers.

Quite humiliating.[/quote]

And Duckk threatens me with the ban hammer?

I would much prefer to focus my attention and imagination on a prematurely and spectacularly developed Henke.

She probably perfected her math skills by analyzing the magnitude and frequency of her undamped harmonic oscillations.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

cthia wrote:

Don't get me started thinking about a well developed Henke!

Of course prolong probably had a humiliating effect on young men who arrived at Saganami Island still looking prepubescent in the showers.

Quite humiliating.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:And Duckk threatens me with the ban hammer?

I would much prefer to focus my attention and imagination on a prematurely and spectacularly developed Henke.

She probably perfected her math skills by analyzing the magnitude and frequency of her undamped harmonic oscillations.

If there's any consolation, he's cut more of my threads than a seamstress.

cthia wrote:
In Enemy Hands saw her dressing down the WDB and chastizing Hamish. Which I'll take as a clue the moment she surpassed him. Or at least evidence of it. LOL

Actually, she wrote the conclusions for the WDB. The negative remarks that some considered a chastisement addressed the...shortcomings with the experimental weapons fit on the Courageous-class refit. But since you bring it up...



My criteria for MVP: the individual who had the biggest impact in why a good team was good.

With that in mind, I think the single moment that the awards committee (yours truly) will look at as 'this is it' will be In Enemy Hands Chapter 2, when she calls Admiral White Haven up short on his...rather flawed analysis of the new fleet configuration.

I suppose he work on the Weapons Development Board could also be pointed out, but I prefer the aforementioned moment for two reasons. First, we see the scene in question rather than have it alluded to. Second, it is in this scene that Honor converts the biggest advocate of the 'Historical School' into being an ally of the jeune école's radical departure in ship design.

Ultimately, her actions prior to this have effectively been local actions (albeit ones with out-sized consequences). But it is in this moment that she has a direct hand in enabling the future victories of the RMN.

Based on her writings and published photos, Governor Palin was a "late bloomer." Of course she had really "blossomed" by the time she competed in the Miss Alaska pagent and motherhood enhanced her.

Hurray for Late Bloomers!

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

cthia wrote:

Don't get me started thinking about a well developed Henke!

Of course prolong probably had a humiliating effect on young men who arrived at Saganami Island still looking prepubescent in the showers.

Quite humiliating.

And Duckk threatens me with the ban hammer?

I would much prefer to focus my attention and imagination on a prematurely and spectacularly developed Henke.

She probably perfected her math skills by analyzing the magnitude and frequency of her undamped harmonic oscillations.[/quote]

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Based on her writings and published photos, Governor Palin was a "late bloomer." Of course she had really "blossomed" by the time she competed in the Miss Alaska pagent and motherhood enhanced her.

Hurray for Late Bloomers!

cthia wrote:I also smile when I think about Honor's gawky stage while hanging around a well developed Henke. How could it not have appeared like Henke was babysitting?

Talk about an odd couple.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Don't get me started thinking about a well developed Henke!

Of course prolong probably had a humiliating effect on young men who arrived at Saganami Island still looking prepubescent in the showers.

cthia wrote:Quite humiliating.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:And Duckk threatens me with the ban hammer?

TFLYTSNBN wrote:I would much prefer to focus my attention and imagination on a prematurely and spectacularly developed Henke.

She probably perfected her math skills by analyzing the magnitude and frequency of her undamped harmonic oscillations.

The adolescent totality pretty well explains why you have been threatened with a ban. You might last longer in the forum if you could keep your mind out of the showers.

cthia wrote:In my warped brain, she became the MVP the moment the Havenites began to fear her. Boogeyman? Salamander? Honor kept the Peeps honest. Her value was priceless then.

cthia wrote:

tlb wrote:The earliest mention of her being the "Salamander", that I can find, is in Chapter 8 of Honor Among Enemies. Is that right?

[snip]

Since that is early in the book, it still supports Flag in Exile.

I think your Flag In Exile bid is a really good contender. It is backed up by critical moments in the following novel, Honor Among Enemies. In Honor Among Enemies Honor won over Hauptman and tipped the balance of the political arena against her and stacked the deck more so in her own favor. Politics began to lose its sting against her then, having the Hauptmans in her corner. Stacy spearheaded that. Having your bacon saved by the woman you hate, along with your daughter, after what you tried to do to her, just might do the trick to win you over too.

Plus, in the 'what goes around comes around' category, in HAE she establishes a non-boogeyman relationship with honorable Peeps, Warner Caslet & Shannon Foraker, which pays off in later books.

Galactic Sapper wrote:

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:IIRC, Michelle was senior to Honor before the events of _On Basilisk Station_. The double promotion put Honor ahead, where she has stayed.

Correct. SVW states that the two had last seen each other 6 years before Honor comes aboard Nike and Henke had been senior to her at that point - presumably due to Henke being promoted at the typical speed of non-connected officers which she'd insist on while Honor was held back somewhat by various North Hollow allies in the Navy. I'm assuming that meant the two were the same grade but Henke was senior by date of rank. Of course, by the time the two meet again Honor is two ranks senior to Henke and stays so (or more) until Henke is promoted to full admiral in SoF.

cthia wrote:Is that true? I think you may be correct. Michelle was already in the navy when Honor got there? ISTR something about her taking Honor under her wing. Did someone formally ask that of Michelle?

The two were in the same class at the academy. What was expected when the staff paired them was that Henke would help Honor develop political awareness and social skills while Honor helped Henke in more technical areas and tactics.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Henke was tutoring Honor on math so I don't think that she was weak in technical areas.

Because she was so hard on herself and so afraid of being cast in nepotistic stone also probably caused her to rigorously apply herself in her studies and excel in all other areas. What she was so afraid of caused her to excel - and also caused her to hold herself back. It was a Catch-22 with Michelle.