BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA

cthia wrote:I wasn't aware they're checked a lot. I was under the impression they enjoyed a bit of diplomatic immunity. Since there is normally no such thing as a little immunity, I'd think the boats were relatively safe unless they really looked too way off design - yet out of the ordinary.

DB's, often times than not, are carrying very important and classified trade secrets. They must be depended on for security. I would imagine searching a DB is a very big deal. I would imagine. Though I could just as easily be wrong.

I believe that we have seen many other examples of dispatch boats, in addition to those that have diplomatic immunity. For example, news organizations employ DB's to bring in news from beyond and likely would complain about freedom of the press if detained.
I expect they are not checked a lot, because they are ubiquitous and not capable of carrying large amounts of cargo. I would guess that the streak boats are probably disguised with documentation from a genuine news organization.

agreed. also if the way the peeps ran them in ecohes of honor is any inhdication then the hard drives or discs where the data is stored is very heavily encrypted and hard to access because so much of the data is confidential/trade secret.

Tlb, thanks for the textev. ISTR the same textev that a DB and an SB appear to be the same.

If they were actually the size of frigates, extrapolating from. . .

Dauntless wrote:a frigate has to be bigger then DB as a frigate was armed and DB aren't. even if weapons is just a couple of missile tubes and lasers I'd expect at least 5 to 10K difference in size

the only frigates we have seen were built for torch quite recently, I don't recall a size mentioned but given how modern they are i'd expect one to be as big as a pre war destroyer. culvern class the last deign prior to wolfhound/roland was 105K and came out in 1899 5 years before the war.

If that were so, would imply. . .


A DB is essentially a frigate w/o weapons. It also lacks an advanced sensor suite. A frigate w/o weapons or an advanced sensor suite, accompanying electronics and support systems leaves lots of room for internal expansion. No? A hyper generator twice the size should be insignificant compared to the otherwise empty internal volume available -- minus a CIC, weapons and systems, supporting electronics, etc., No?

Is it possible to hide a much more advanced sensor suite on a DB? I keep recalling the technological advances of the Q-ship the Peeps tried to hide from the Manties.

But, alas, the native size of DBs probably doesn't leave a whole lot of room to play with, or that extra room would undoubtedly be slated for creature comforts.

Does RMN frigates enjoy the advantage in accel as their other warships?

cthia wrote:Does RMN frigates enjoy the advantage in accel as their other warships?

the RMN does not have any frigates. the last was scrapped before Honor even joined the RMN.

Torch has some and they were built in manticore by Hauptmans, but I doubt they were built with the bleeding edge compensator that are standard for RMN contracts.

still given the close standing of Torch they will be close to top of line, so they would be faster then anything else their size that doesn't belong to the GA

Dauntless wrote:

cthia wrote:Does RMN frigates enjoy the advantage in accel as their other warships?

the RMN does not have any frigates. the last was scrapped before Honor even joined the RMN.

Torch has some and they were built in manticore by Hauptmans, but I doubt they were built with the bleeding edge compensator that are standard for RMN contracts.

still given the close standing of Torch they will be close to top of line, so they would be faster then anything else their size that doesn't belong to the GA

Thanks. But they could be built with current accel advantages?

there are two classes that Hauptmann was building, the only screen time they get is in the torch books and details are slim.

one i guess to be basically a slightly smaller clone of the Culvern destroyer class, only with more modern electronics, PD and maybe the beta squared nodes.

I say this as it is best destroyer manticore had prior to the Roland/wolfhound but with the best part of 2 decades of data i'm sure a few tweeks were added

like the first design we know almost nothing about the second other then it has a spinal weapon like a Shrike, can't remember if it be laser or graser and I don't recall how powerful it is, but i'd be very surprised if it isn't as good as a modern Manticore CL carries, so probably almost as powerful as an early first war BC like the early shrikes had.

but the first ones were built for the anti slavery league and then given to torch when it was founded.

so they were basically for the saner members of the ballroom. much as Elizabeth and Honor and Hauptman hate slavery, i don't see them letting civilians, especially ones only a short step or 2 from being terrorists, have bleeding edge military tech

second ones were built for torch and the spinal mount makes it clear they have definitely had some tweeks from the first haven war included in their construction, so a bleeding edge compensator would not be too much of a stretch.


there is certainly no physical reason you could not put a bleeding edge compensator into a frigate. it masses the same as any other compensator, i believe. the choice what level of compensator would be installed would be political or financial.

point being that only someone like torch, a third rate power would even want a frigate in the first place. given that the era of single drive missile is as good as over, then the smallest hyper warship you can get away is a roland and that is arguably too small, given its very limited ammo and lack of flexibility re missions.

Dauntless wrote:there are two classes that Hauptmann was building, the only screen time they get is in the torch books and details are slim.

one i guess to be basically a slightly smaller clone of the Culvern destroyer class, only with more modern electronics, PD and maybe the beta squared nodes.

I say this as it is best destroyer manticore had prior to the Roland/wolfhound but with the best part of 2 decades of data i'm sure a few tweeks were added

like the first design we know almost nothing about the second other then it has a spinal weapon like a Shrike, can't remember if it be laser or graser and I don't recall how powerful it is, but i'd be very surprised if it isn't as good as a modern Manticore CL carries, so probably almost as powerful as an early first war BC like the early shrikes had.

but the first ones were built for the anti slavery league and then given to torch when it was founded.

so they were basically for the saner members of the ballroom. much as Elizabeth and Honor and Hauptman hate slavery, i don't see them letting civilians, especially ones only a short step or 2 from being terrorists, have bleeding edge military tech

second ones were built for torch and the spinal mount makes it clear they have definitely had some tweeks from the first haven war included in their construction, so a bleeding edge compensator would not be too much of a stretch.


there is certainly no physical reason you could not put a bleeding edge compensator into a frigate. it masses the same as any other compensator, i believe. the choice what level of compensator would be installed would be political or financial.

point being that only someone like torch, a third rate power would even want a frigate in the first place. given that the era of single drive missile is as good as over, then the smallest hyper warship you can get away is a roland and that is arguably too small, given its very limited ammo and lack of flexibility re missions.

IIRC, they were the equavivalent two LACs welded ass to ass with a hypergenerator shoehorned in. Eat anyone else's destroyers for breakfast.

cthia wrote:Does RMN frigates enjoy the advantage in accel as their other warships?

Rephrasing that as wondering whether RMN DB's have the same acceleration advantage as their other warships? I do not know. Since they are unarmed, I would argue against putting sensitive equipment into something that could be captured in system; on the other hand, giving them even more of an acceleration advantage would help them escape.
Also I expect a military DB will have as extensive a sensor package as will fit.
By the way, here is the text on the streak drive DB's from Storm from the Shadows, chapter 19:

Albrecht grunted in semi-irate acknowledgment of Benjamin's point. Even with streak-drive dispatch boats, there was a limit to how quickly information could get around. And to be honest, they were overusing the Beowulf conduit, as far as he was concerned. He knew there was nothing to distinguish a streak-drive equipped vessel from any other dispatch boat as far as any external examination was concerned, but he didn't like sending them back and forth between Mesa and Manticore any more frequently than he had to. Beowulf had closed its terminus of the Manticore Wormhole Junction to all Mesan traffic from the day of its discovery, with Manticore's complete support and approval. None of the dispatch boats of the Beowulf conduit were Mesan-registered, of course, but there was always the unhappy possibility that Beowulfan or Manticoran intelligence might manage to penetrate that particular deception. It was unlikely in the extreme, but the Alignment had developed a wary respect for both Beowulf's and Manticore's analysts over the decades.
But there's not really any choice, he told himself. It's only sixty light-years from Beowulf to Mesa via the Visigoth Wormhole. That's only five days for a streak boat. We can't possibly justify not using that advantage at a time like this, so I guess I'll just have to hope the wheels don't come off.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:Does RMN frigates enjoy the advantage in accel as their other warships?

Rephrasing that as wondering whether RMN DB's have the same acceleration advantage as their other warships? I do not know. Since they are unarmed, I would argue against putting sensitive equipment into something that could be captured in system; on the other hand, giving them even more of an acceleration advantage would help them escape.
Also I expect a military DB will have as extensive a sensor package as will fit.
By the way, here is the text on the streak drive DB's from Storm from the Shadows, chapter 19:

Albrecht grunted in semi-irate acknowledgment of Benjamin's point. Even with streak-drive dispatch boats, there was a limit to how quickly information could get around. And to be honest, they were overusing the Beowulf conduit, as far as he was concerned. He knew there was nothing to distinguish a streak-drive equipped vessel from any other dispatch boat as far as any external examination was concerned, but he didn't like sending them back and forth between Mesa and Manticore any more frequently than he had to. Beowulf had closed its terminus of the Manticore Wormhole Junction to all Mesan traffic from the day of its discovery, with Manticore's complete support and approval. None of the dispatch boats of the Beowulf conduit were Mesan-registered, of course, but there was always the unhappy possibility that Beowulfan or Manticoran intelligence might manage to penetrate that particular deception. It was unlikely in the extreme, but the Alignment had developed a wary respect for both Beowulf's and Manticore's analysts over the decades.
But there's not really any choice, he told himself. It's only sixty light-years from Beowulf to Mesa via the Visigoth Wormhole. That's only five days for a streak boat. We can't possibly justify not using that advantage at a time like this, so I guess I'll just have to hope the wheels don't come off.

Thanks again.

Partly. But not completely. . .

More like. . .would the MA have the exact same mindset?

Quintessential MA creed seems to be risk to human life in general is inconsequential. Lives outside the Onion are expendable. Certainly since even members of the Inner Onion seem to be expendable. I think the MA rely upon training - being totally cool under fire, diplomatic immunity, nanites and the fact that there will be absolutely NO chance that a SB will be captured. Self-destructed maybe. But if we get the jump on you first. . .

At any rate, I can conceive of the realities of an MA SB to be just as fraught with unrealistic perils as living life on Darius. I can also conceive of an operating environment when the Streak Drive is initiated which requires genetically enhanced genies to survive. I imagine a SB to be fully tricked out. Why not? I can't conceive of the MA complying to a traffic stop. Sorry, I just can't imagine that.

I wonder how many SB port of calls are bought and paid for.