EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!

smr wrote:Proverbs 13:12

Your maxims are proverbs of ashes; your defenses are defenses of clay.

Gcomeau's rant is like the kettle calling the pot black! What delicious irony in Gcomeau's statements.

Wtf are you even talking about?

Michael Everett wrote:E, you can stop re-posting that post now.
I think most of us here understand the points you are making.

When I was trying to post the post the first time, the server kept timing out, so I tried again and again. Apparently, that was a mistake

Michael Everett wrote:E, you can stop re-posting that post now.
I think most of us here understand the points you are making.

And most of you probably also agree, because most of you get your facts straight from the internet. You internet artists are getting to be quite dangerous. You do know that businesses are closing because the only qualifications of the owners seem to be the internet? What is that, three erroneous posts of ignorance. If you post it a 1000 times it won't change the fact that it is ignorance based on your internet searches. At least read the US Constitution and peripheral documents if you want to stand a chance at not sounding ignorant.

BUT, WTF!

This is going to be short because I've still got company for a big American holiday weekend. And because dabbling in foreign arrogance and ignorance regarding US politics is as exhausting as it is annoying. Yet neither changes truths!

The US has always had immigration laws! And illegal immigration has always been a crime! Many are tied up with American citizenship.

Unchanged, untouched and unfettered, are the laws of the US Constitution to prohibit immigration of any person for their political views or criminal records.

Before the U.S. Civil War (1861-1865), the federal government gave a great deal of leeway to the individual states to control naturalization of immigrants, despite the authority that the U.S. Congress had been granted in Article I, section 8 of the Constitution. Members of one class of “immigrants”— African American slaves—were never granted citizenship in the states that permitted slavery. Moreover, many other states that had not permitted slavery also restricted citizenship for African Americans. Because no slaves were legally imported after 1808, all African Americans born in the United States after that date were secondary immigrants. Those African Americans were denied citizenship based on the principle of jus sanguinis, while most other categories of primary and secondary immigrants were governed by the principle of jus soli.

A side effect of the days of slavery, the above fact is one of the main things biting the US in its proverbial ass. The attempt to right this wrong has resulted in wording that waters down the autonomy that individual states had to control immigration by continuing to enforce certain laws that suddenly became adverse to the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. (Obviously immigrants became aware of newly opened loopholes in the US Constitution meant only to protect the rights of newly freed slaves.)*

One glaring loophole is the right of anyone actually born in the US. This monstrous loophole is part and parcel for many problems that the US is having now. And this poophole (not a typo) is being taken advantage of stupendously by the "latino gold rush." Which is the expediency of a male or female to father a child in America. Or to father a child outside of America but smuggle the pregnant woman in the states. Once she bears, her child is a US citizen. She or her baby's father isn't, but then, it is extremely difficult to deport the parents of legal citizens. The problem that has been in the news as of late.

This is thought to be the number one problem of health care in the US, whose insurance formulas are based on the statistics of the population of actual American citizens and the projected rate of growth, based on formulas that did not include the latino gold rush!

The latino gold rush is a derogatory term, but used within certain social circles of the US.

BUT!

Any child born on U.S. soil is a natural citizen of the U.S. The mother/father does not attain citizenship merely because of the birth. If they were illegally in the U.S. at the time of the birth, they are still considered "Illegal" and are subject to deportation.

That has always been the case! Which is why green cards were once like manna in the US because of the autonomy exercised by the states at the time!

*Daryl, this is why the average American does not want any asswipes fucking around with the US Constitution. Doing so may break it in very fundamental ways. It is like screwing around with Microsoft Windows - where a reported fix may (and has) break every damn thing else.

I do wish foreigners would get a phucking clue. Hell, I'd settle with a phucking hint.

BTW, the problem began to assert itself when corrupt, inconsiderate, self serving American businesses who resisted fair wages began to hire cheap labor in record numbers in the form of illegals. When the government began cracking down on illegals, suddenly their businesses were in jeopardy. Huge amounts of funding began challenging the US Constitution and loopholes were found. Infringing upon the spirit of the law for the letter of the law.

There is lobbying for change of the Constitution, but a real fear exists for that change because, again, opening the door while changing it can break it in unforeseen and crippling ways.

Unlike the UK, Australia does have a written constitution, not that different to the US one.
To change it takes a Referendum, carried by a majority of voters and a majority of states. So yes it hasn't changed all that much over the past century either.
What I and others find strange is how the US Constitution is so revered by many (not all) of its citizens. We are glad to have one to set guidelines, and rarely change it, however there is nothing remotely sacred about it to us. Just another mechanism of government.
Your argument about the law of unintended consequences has some merit, but I doubt that is the real reason. It's more like wanting to change the look of a Ming dynasty vase, but you don't want to fiddle with "perfection".
Finally get used to "ass wipe" foreigners commenting about the US, its citizens, and its institutions. You lot continually try to impose your assumed superior culture and system on other sovereign countries around the world, either by infiltration or direct conquest, so it's natural for others to fight back.

cthia wrote:And most of you probably also agree, because most of you get your facts straight from the internet. You internet artists are getting to be quite dangerous. You do know that businesses are closing because the only qualifications of the owners seem to be the internet? What is that, three erroneous posts of ignorance. If you post it a 1000 times it won't change the fact that it is ignorance based on your internet searches. At least read the US Constitution and peripheral documents if you want to stand a chance at not sounding ignorant.

BUT, WTF!

Nice preamble you have there.
Would be even better if it had anything of substance to say about what I said.

This is going to be short because I've still got company for a big American holiday weekend. And because dabbling in foreign arrogance and ignorance regarding US politics is as exhausting as it is annoying. Yet neither changes truths!

The US has always had immigration laws! And illegal immigration has always been a crime! Many are tied up with American citizenship.

And that's where you're wrong.
Here's the list I'm using, feel free to tell us all which laws it missed.

Because, fact is, for a very long time the only requirement to become a US citizen was having lived in the US for a set time. Anyone living in the US, but not yet long enough to have gained citizenship rights, would have been an "illegal immigrant" in modern parlance - and yet, the idea of that being a crime was not established until much later.

Unchanged, untouched and unfettered, are the laws of the US Constitution to prohibit immigration of any person for their political views or criminal records.

And this disproves what I said how? Or has anything at all to do with what I was talking about?

This is thought to be the number one problem of health care in the US, whose insurance formulas are based on the statistics of the population of actual American citizens and the projected rate of growth, based on formulas that did not include the latino gold rush!

I thought the number one healthcare problem was exploding costs for everyone, but hey, who am I to contradict an american....

I do wish foreigners would get a phucking clue. Hell, I'd settle with a phucking hint.

It would help, you know, if you were posting facts instead of anecdotes.

The E wrote:

Michael Everett wrote:E, you can stop re-posting that post now.
I think most of us here understand the points you are making.

When I was trying to post the post the first time, the server kept timing out, so I tried again and again. Apparently, that was a mistake

Typical German computer incontinence.

cthia wrote:One glaring loophole is the right of anyone actually born in the US. This monstrous loophole is part and parcel for many problems that the US is having now. And this poophole (not a typo) is being taken advantage of stupendously by the "latino gold rush." Which is the expediency of a male or female to father a child in America. Or to father a child outside of America but smuggle the pregnant woman in the states. Once she bears, her child is a US citizen. She or her baby's father isn't, but then, it is extremely difficult to deport the parents of legal citizens. The problem that has been in the news as of late.

You are speaking of the 14th Amendment, passed in 1868. It was intended to guarantee citizenship and civil rights to the freed slaves and their descendants.

There is one persistent inequity that I think still hasn’t been corrected. When I was in the Navy there were a number of Philippine citizens there, too. They were not guaranteed US citizenship for serving in the United States Navy. I think anyone who serves honorably in the US armed forces should be granted citizenship.

The 14th Amendment wrote:All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

I think we can all agree the original purpose of that clause became moot about 100 years ago. Today it is only a scam, exploited by any illegal alien that manages to drop an ankle-biter on our side of the border. Why should a criminal act make those ‘anchor babies’ suddenly become our responsibility?

That first clause should have been amended a long time ago. A child born in the US should only be considered a citizen if at least one of its biological parents was a US citizen at the time of birth. Otherwise, it’s still a citizen of the country they all came from.

This is no longer the 19th century. Today, the USA is in the same boat as the whole world — overloaded, overpopulated, polluted, over-consuming resources, and with overstressed infrastructure. In addition, we are sunk in a black hole of debt it would take two hundred years to crawl out of if the idiots-in-charge stopped digging it deeper today. We already have more subsistence-level unskilled uneducated mostly-illiterate poor than we can support. We’ve got our own problems, and dumping more poor on us won’t solve anybody else’s problems. Indeed, giving them the illusion that they are solving their problems by dumping them on us will help them pretend they don’t need to solve them and all but guarantee that they won’t try.

Take a look at Mexico. They have the population, the resources, and access to all the same knowledge we have. By all rights, Mexico should be successful, and free, and a wonderful place to live. Instead it’s a shithole that people are literally dying to escape from. That is not our fault! We did not create their corrupt government, or their entrenched oligarchy, and we can’t do anything about either one.

Well, okay, we could correct some of our policies that help enable them.

The world has long since passed the point where we can continue on our current course. We have to either find a lot more resources — from somewhere, somehow — or get a handle on overpopulation. So far only China has made even the slightest attempt, and the ‘progressives’ screamed at them like they were practicing cannibalism. (Yes, I have heard of ‘A Modest Proposal’)

If we don’t find a way to solve these problems for ourselves, they will be solved for us in ways nobody will like. However much you might deplore Doctor Malthus, you can’t go on giving him the finger forever.
———————————
Artie: “Don’t open that!! It’s the original can of worms!” (Warehouse 13)

Imaginos1892 wrote:

cthia wrote:One glaring loophole is the right of anyone actually born in the US. This monstrous loophole is part and parcel for many problems that the US is having now. And this poophole (not a typo) is being taken advantage of stupendously by the "latino gold rush." Which is the expediency of a male or female to father a child in America. Or to father a child outside of America but smuggle the pregnant woman in the states. Once she bears, her child is a US citizen. She or her baby's father isn't, but then, it is extremely difficult to deport the parents of legal citizens. The problem that has been in the news as of late.

You are speaking of the 14th Amendment, passed in 1868. It was intended to guarantee citizenship and civil rights to the freed slaves and their descendants.

There is one persistent inequity that I think still hasn’t been corrected. When I was in the Navy there were a number of Philippine citizens there, too. They were not guaranteed US citizenship for serving in the United States Navy. I think anyone who serves honorably in the US armed forces should be granted citizenship.

The 14th Amendment wrote:All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

I think we can all agree the original purpose of that clause became moot about 100 years ago. Today it is only a scam, exploited by any illegal alien that manages to drop an ankle-biter on our side of the border. Why should a criminal act make those ‘anchor babies’ suddenly become our responsibility?

That first clause should have been amended a long time ago. A child born in the US should only be considered a citizen if at least one of its biological parents was a US citizen at the time of birth. Otherwise, it’s still a citizen of the country they all came from.

This is no longer the 19th century. Today, the USA is in the same boat as the whole world — overloaded, overpopulated, polluted, over-consuming resources, and with overstressed infrastructure. In addition, we are sunk in a black hole of debt it would take two hundred years to crawl out of if the idiots-in-charge stopped digging it deeper today. We already have more subsistence-level unskilled uneducated mostly-illiterate poor than we can support. We’ve got our own problems, and dumping more poor on us won’t solve anybody else’s problems. Indeed, giving them the illusion that they are solving their problems by dumping them on us will help them pretend they don’t need to solve them and all but guarantee that they won’t try.

Take a look at Mexico. They have the population, the resources, and access to all the same knowledge we have. By all rights, Mexico should be successful, and free, and a wonderful place to live. Instead it’s a shithole that people are literally dying to escape from. That is not our fault! We did not create their corrupt government, or their entrenched oligarchy, and we can’t do anything about either one.

Well, okay, we could correct some of our policies that help enable them.

The world has long since passed the point where we can continue on our current course. We have to either find a lot more resources — from somewhere, somehow — or get a handle on overpopulation. So far only China has made even the slightest attempt, and the ‘progressives’ screamed at them like they were practicing cannibalism. (Yes, I have heard of ‘A Modest Proposal’)

If we don’t find a way to solve these problems for ourselves, they will be solved for us in ways nobody will like. However much you might deplore Doctor Malthus, you can’t go on giving him the finger forever.
———————————
Artie: “Don’t open that!! It’s the original can of worms!” (Warehouse 13)

Oops, my apology. I thought I included the fact that I was referencing the 14th Amendment. When I prepare a post I rush all of my thoughts onto paper so I won't forget them, then edit the bloat. Time restraints - like now, which demand popping in and out of hyper - introduces errors and/or omissions. Thanks for supplying the specific Amendment.

cthia wrote:The US has always had immigration laws! And illegal immigration has always been a crime! Many are tied up with American citizenship.

The E wrote:And that's where you're wrong.
Here's the list I'm using, feel free to tell us all which laws it missed.

Because, fact is, for a very long time the only requirement to become a US citizen was having lived in the US for a set time. Anyone living in the US, but not yet long enough to have gained citizenship rights, would have been an "illegal immigrant" in modern parlance - and yet, the idea of that being a crime was not established until much later.

Whew! You internet researchers are going to drive me to drink! You find data then you inaccurately digest it!*

Look at the very first thing on the list, E., . . .

1790
Naturalization Act of 1790

Established the rules for naturalized citizenship, as per Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, but placed no restrictions on immigration. Citizenship was limited to white persons, with no other restriction on non-whites.

That is legal immigration, E. Legal! The US has always welcomed immigration. The US has adopted more immigrants than all other countries combined! But there is a process one must go through. There are no laws protecting illegal immigrants. The entire idea of okaying anything illegal is absurd. Not even an ignorant politician wants to open the door to only God knows what kind of disease or weapon or political affirmation can be brought into this country.

*Accurately. Digesting. Statistics. Is. A. Lucrative. Career. Called. Marketing.

This is getting to be really old and tiresome.