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Merlin and Nynian’s “children”

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Merlin and Nynian’s “children”
Post by PlaysWithBees   » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:06 pm

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My 1st thought at the end of the last book was that Merlin and Nynian would wed, start an orphanage and raise the kids as “theirs.”

HOWEVER!

Recent conversations regarding a virtual reality computer in a cave and possible retirement plans for the future has got me thinking. We know that the VR computer can set it’s parameters to almost anything. What would happen if they set it so they could actually have children in virtual reality? Then later as the new child personalities “grew up”, they were given PICA bodies and allowed to go out into the “real” world?

Opens up a whole realm of possibilities as well as discussions on what it means to be a “real person”

(NTM providing numerous agents to send out... if they don’t rebel against mom and dad...)
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Re: Merlin and Nynian’s “children”
Post by Potato   » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:14 pm

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It is not as if the VR simulation can create another intelligence. It must be loaded with an extant recorded personality, or linked to an artificial intelligence core. It does not simply create new life any more than a pile of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, and nitrogen would.

There is also the matter of the cave's fabrication plant not being able to create another PICA, as all of the requisite rare materials were consumed to make Nimue.
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Re: Merlin and Nynian’s “children”
Post by NervousEnergy   » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:37 pm

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That PICA limitation is the big hit to anything like this, as previous mentioned. Plus a true 'created' AI is likely going to be a pretty alien thing unless (as in the case of Norman and OWL) it's heavily influenced by the thought patterns of a intelligence that grew up in a true human body.

Humans are biological animals, with every facet of our personality and cognitivie structure based on the reality of growing up and living in these particular biological machines. An AI created in a digital world would, from an internal cognitive structure, be a very, very alien being.
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Re: Merlin and Nynian’s “children”
Post by PlaysWithBees   » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:01 pm

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Just hypothesizing, once people start getting implants again, (an “at birth” procedure pre-Safe hold) it would not be out of the line of possibility for a few “donor” personality templates to be made if necessary, along the line of sperm and egg donors. If it were even necessary. You would already have Nimue’s and Nynian’s templates on file and editing techniques are known. It’s not out of the realm of possibility for a newborn level “cutting” could be extracted and allowed to develop in-VR (in-vitro)

As far as no PICA bodies being made, that’s just out of current resources. Once the industrial module is running full capability, the needed resources will be created.
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Re: Merlin and Nynian’s “children”
Post by Potato   » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:21 pm

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PlaysWithBees wrote:Just hypothesizing, once people start getting implants again, (an “at birth” procedure pre-Safe hold) it would not be out of the line of possibility for a few “donor” personality templates to be made if necessary, along the line of sperm and egg donors. If it were even necessary. You would already have Nimue’s and Nynian’s templates on file and editing techniques are known. It’s not out of the realm of possibility for a newborn level “cutting” could be extracted and allowed to develop in-VR (in-vitro)

As far as no PICA bodies being made, that’s just out of current resources. Once the industrial module is running full capability, the needed resources will be created.


Editing techniques are not known. No one is a Federation trained psychologist or neurologist, who would be required for poking around in people's heads.

And if the industrial module is being run at full capacity, then the truth must have been revealed and the orbital system neutralized. Operating the system at full capacity for expansion and mass production requires that to be true, there is no other way to justify its exposure. That being the case, there is no point in playing games trying to make AI clones or whatever.
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Re: Merlin and Nynian’s “children”
Post by kaid   » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:29 pm

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I think it may also be possible if owl has a full work up on merlin he may have at least a digital copy of merlins original DNA in his records. If that is the case it may in fact be possible to um create the material necessary for a actual child between them from both parents.
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Re: Merlin and Nynian’s “children”
Post by Randomiser   » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:12 pm

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Potato wrote:There is also the matter of the cave's fabrication plant not being able to create another PICA, as all of the requisite rare materials were consumed to make Nimue.


That was only out of resources to hand at the time, when they had a war to run. They have had several years of 'peace' since then and Cayleb can buy anything available, or even set up 'exploratory' mines, that don't work out producing anything useful, in Safehold terms. There is room in the cave to process Pica sized quantities of just about anything. So unless what they need requires truly deep mining or hugely power-intensive exotic processes, even for TF technology, they ought to have been able to fix their supply shortage by now. If they haven't it's probably because they don't see any need to.
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Re: Merlin and Nynian’s “children”
Post by Direwolf18   » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:51 pm

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That seems awfully complicated. I kinda just figure they would adopt an orphan or two. Not like there arent plenty of those to go around at this point.
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Re: Merlin and Nynian’s “children”
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:40 pm

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Direwolf18 wrote:That seems awfully complicated. I kinda just figure they would adopt an orphan or two. Not like there arent plenty of those to go around at this point.


I'm thinking they adopt some dependents from those Helm Cleaver operatives that died on anti Clyntahn ops. Not all their "charges" will be adopted, but many will be. Also there will be many Zion kids orphaned from the uprising and the Clyntahn purges. Stand to reason that many will be related o Helm Cleaver in some form or another.

Merlin has his own orphans that he would feel responsible for, like that family he rescued from the concentration camp. Together, those two will have a plethora of possible adoptees to choose from.
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Re: Merlin and Nynian’s “children”
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:20 pm

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Randomiser wrote:That was only out of resources to hand at the time, when they had a war to run. They have had several years of 'peace' since then and Cayleb can buy anything available, or even set up 'exploratory' mines, that don't work out producing anything useful, in Safehold terms.


I got the impression that the missing resource was something like Iridium; plentiful in asteroids and comets, but extremely rare on the planet's surface. IOW, something that will have to wait for the elimination of the Proscriptions and advent of spaceflight to restock.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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