Battle of Trevor's Star

cthia wrote:This train of thought begs the question as to whether Trevor's Star would have remained in Peep possession after the alliance if it hadn't fallen to White Haven.

I think I read somewhere that certain systems were returned as a result. But since the Star Kingdom never got around to ratifying a treaty. . .well, in these times of seceding systems I suppose San Martin could elect to secede, although control of the junction wouldn't necessarily go with them.

I have to find time to reread the series again, but didn't President Prichart went forward with the referendums after Thunderbolt? I know Manticore never agreed to them, in that they never signed the treaty, but I though Haven went ahead and gave their conquests the option to leave during the 2nd War.

If they'd still held Trevor's Star (but Elois still ended up in control of a restored Republic) I believe she would have let them go eventually. But if she did so during the war she probably would have insisted on the right to fortify the terminus and maintain a military base - at least until the war was over - to keep it from being a route for deep raiding against Republic systems. But that military requirement isn't inherently incompatible with restoring self-governance at least on the planet. OTOH she might have eased up on the planetary occupation and promised a referendum after the fighting was over.

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:This train of thought begs the question as to whether Trevor's Star would have remained in Peep possession after the alliance if it hadn't fallen to White Haven.

I think I read somewhere that certain systems were returned as a result. But since the Star Kingdom never got around to ratifying a treaty. . .well, in these times of seceding systems I suppose San Martin could elect to secede, although control of the junction wouldn't necessarily go with them.

I have to find time to reread the series again, but didn't President Prichart went forward with the referendums after Thunderbolt? I know Manticore never agreed to them, in that they never signed the treaty, but I though Haven went ahead and gave their conquests the option to leave during the 2nd War.

If they'd still held Trevor's Star (but Elois still ended up in control of a restored Republic) I believe she would have let them go eventually. But if she did so during the war she probably would have insisted on the right to fortify the terminus and maintain a military base - at least until the war was over - to keep it from being a route for deep raiding against Republic systems. But that military requirement isn't inherently incompatible with restoring self-governance at least on the planet. OTOH she might have eased up on the planetary occupation and promised a referendum after the fighting was over.

Thanks Jonathan for the reply, and also for your return.

My baggage is tied up in my most favorite read of the series, OBS. The RMN was not allowed to have but so many forces in the Bailisk system, I suppose so as not to insult Basilisk's sensibilities that the Star Kingdom's intentions were other than friendly, foreign policy I suppose. My memory is waning and begging a reread.

At any rate, I wondered whether Haven's failure to fortify Trevor's Star also had something to do with foreign policy, though their policy wouldn't have anything in common with the Star Kingdom's. Besides, Trevor's Star was a forced annexation.

Other concerns of mine lurking are whether other Havenite systems who endured a forced annexation like San Martin would opt out now, during the sea of calm, being long privy to the recurring spots of the leopard - as you've touched on yourself. I really can't swallow that at least some hostile takeovers aren't also screaming secession during this uncharacteristic lull in Havenite brutality.

We all know what would have happened if they'd voiced secession plans during Saint-Just's rein, Operation Buccaneer - CPS style. Beowulf all over.

I believe Haven didn't fortify Trevor's Star because they figured they'd be launching attacks rather than defending.

cthia wrote:The RMN was not allowed to have but so many forces in the Bailisk system, I suppose so as not to insult Basilisk's sensibilities that the Star Kingdom's intentions were other than friendly, foreign policy I suppose. My memory is waning and begging a reread.

The RMN was not allowed to fortify Basilisk prior to the events of On Basilisk Station due to the internal politics of the Star Kingdom. The natives of Medusa had nothing to do with the policies the Star Kingdom adopted regarding the system. It's mentioned briefly a few times in On Basilisk Station, but House of Steel (in the novella) goes into much more detail regarding the politics of the Star Kingdom regarding Basilisk--as well as many other areas.

You really need to read the at least the novella (I Will Build My House of Steel) in House of Steel, it is quite good and fills in a great deal of background, just like the stories in the anthologies.

Vince wrote:

cthia wrote:The RMN was not allowed to have but so many forces in the Bailisk system, I suppose so as not to insult Basilisk's sensibilities that the Star Kingdom's intentions were other than friendly, foreign policy I suppose. My memory is waning and begging a reread.

The RMN was not allowed to fortify Basilisk prior to the events of On Basilisk Station due to the internal politics of the Star Kingdom. The natives of Medusa had nothing to do with the policies the Star Kingdom adopted regarding the system. It's mentioned briefly a few times in On Basilisk Station, but House of Steel (in the novella) goes into much more detail regarding the politics of the Star Kingdom regarding Basilisk--as well as many other areas.

You really need to read the at least the novella (I Will Build My House of Steel) in House of Steel, it is quite good and fills in a great deal of background, just like the stories in the anthologies.

Thanks Vince. Internal politics = foreign policy?

I've been meaning to read it, honest. I think I mentioned that one book store I frequent didn't have it at all and the other outlet only had three copies, all which were previously placed on hold. I didn't want to order until I checked with my posse in Ro to see if they wanted copies in light of the updated info that it is more than technical specs. Now it simply keeps slipping my mind when I go to the book store. I need to do so in-store to ensure the credit will go to a particular salesperson of my choosing who has been handling orders for me for some time now. I've made another mental note, but mental notes aren't as reliable as they once were. At my rate, I'll end up ordering it the day of UC's release.

cthia wrote:Thanks Vince. Internal politics = foreign policy?

I've been meaning to read it, honest. I think I mentioned that one book store I frequent didn't have it at all and the other outlet only had three copies, all which were previously placed on hold. I didn't want to order until I checked with my posse in Ro to see if they wanted copies in light of the updated info that it is more than technical specs. Now it simply keeps slipping my mind when I go to the book store. I need to do so in-store to ensure the credit will go to a particular salesperson of my choosing who has been handling orders for me for some time now. I've made another mental note, but mental notes aren't as reliable as they once were. At my rate, I'll end up ordering it the day of UC's release.

More like internal politics affecting foreign policy--the need for the Star Kingdom's coalition government to maintain a majority in Parliament, especially the Lords, required concessions to the minor parties of the coalition by the Centrists regarding foreign policy.

Vince wrote:

cthia wrote:Thanks Vince. Internal politics = foreign policy?

I've been meaning to read it, honest. I think I mentioned that one book store I frequent didn't have it at all and the other outlet only had three copies, all which were previously placed on hold. I didn't want to order until I checked with my posse in Ro to see if they wanted copies in light of the updated info that it is more than technical specs. Now it simply keeps slipping my mind when I go to the book store. I need to do so in-store to ensure the credit will go to a particular salesperson of my choosing who has been handling orders for me for some time now. I've made another mental note, but mental notes aren't as reliable as they once were. At my rate, I'll end up ordering it the day of UC's release.

More like internal politics affecting foreign policy--the need for the Star Kingdom's coalition government to maintain a majority in Parliament, especially the Lords, required concessions to the minor parties of the coalition by the Centrists regarding foreign policy.

Yes, that does make more sense. I didn't take into account the rat at the wheel. It's just hard to wrap my head around the stink stirred up by the Janasick Admiralty.

I oftentimes find myself wondering how King Roger would have handled a High Ridge or a Janacek.

Don't think I'm selling Beth short, it's just that King Roger gives me a vibe of tolerating no nonsense atall. A Protector Benjamin in Manticoran garb.

cthia wrote:

cthia wrote:Thanks Vince. Internal politics = foreign policy?

I've been meaning to read it, honest. I think I mentioned that one book store I frequent didn't have it at all and the other outlet only had three copies, all which were previously placed on hold. I didn't want to order until I checked with my posse in Ro to see if they wanted copies in light of the updated info that it is more than technical specs. Now it simply keeps slipping my mind when I go to the book store. I need to do so in-store to ensure the credit will go to a particular salesperson of my choosing who has been handling orders for me for some time now. I've made another mental note, but mental notes aren't as reliable as they once were. At my rate, I'll end up ordering it the day of UC's release.

Vince wrote:More like internal politics affecting foreign policy--the need for the Star Kingdom's coalition government to maintain a majority in Parliament, especially the Lords, required concessions to the minor parties of the coalition by the Centrists regarding foreign policy.

Yes, that does make more sense. I didn't take into account the rat at the wheel. It's just hard to wrap my head around the stink stirred up by the Janasick Admiralty.

I oftentimes find myself wondering how King Roger would have handled a High Ridge or a Janacek.

Don't think I'm selling Beth short, it's just that King Roger gives me a vibe of tolerating no nonsense atall. A Protector Benjamin in Manticoran garb.

Not just trying to sell more copies of the book here, but people who haven't read the novella in House of Steel don't really understand Beth's backstory any more than people who have read OBS and HOTQ but not SVW and FOD really understand Honor's backstory with Pavel Young. As I've said before, this was a story that I really needed to tell and just never found a good hook to hang it upon.

And you can't fully understand how the RMN came to survive, far less win, against the PRH without both her full backstory and --- especially! --- her dad's.

FOD = ?

My take is that Queen Beth is every bit as tough and smart as King Roger. She sufferred a temporary disability by ascendijg as a teenager and potentially being saddled with a corrupt regent. One conversation with honor in AoV about Prolong prolonging her akward adolescene encourages me to visualize Queen Elizebeth as a young Pam Grier, so she is my favorite Manticoran monarch.

FOD = Field of Dishonour book 4 in the series