UC Snippet 15

runsforcelery wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote: You do realize that this battle also confirms that podnaughts might be obsolete? Before MDMs were developed, the grav drivers on missile tubes imparted significant initial velocity. That was why missile pods were considered obsolete prior to TSVW. Now MDM acceleration, Delta Vee and range have increased to the point where launching velocity is inconsequential.
A ship that simply ejects missiles with delayed drive activation can stack salvos just as effectively as an SD(P)

No! Really?!

Could be you're just a little pessimistic about how soon the SD(P) will be obsolete (those pesky CVNs do keep surviving somehow, don't they?), but the Honorverse's warfighting paradigm has never been static (at least since OBS), has it?

I think the point is that once you can deploy a single missile and then launch it at the time and in the direction of your choosing, then the pod becomes an unnecessary layer of packaging. Just think of missiles as one-shot pods.


As for CVNs, when is the last time anyone took a shot at one, outside of exercises?

I can't remember, do they award the PMH to units or only individuals? Koutic seems a sure-fire recipient, dead or alive, "The Tradition Lives!". What would be an appropriate award for his squadron/task force (or whatever)?

IIRC, the last time the US Navy lost a vessel in naval combat was 68 years ago. The last time we had any sort of actual naval combat was operations preying mantis ~30 years ago, against the Iranians - not exactly considered the one of the most accomplished naval powers of the late 20th century. So the fact that we haven’t lost a carrier since WW2 isn’t exactly a sign that we are especially good at protecting them.

kzt wrote:IIRC, the last time the US Navy lost a vessel in naval combat was 68 years ago.

Pueblo, and Liberty?

Bill Woods wrote:

kzt wrote:IIRC, the last time the US Navy lost a vessel in naval combat was 68 years ago.

Pueblo, and Liberty?

Technically not commissioned ships. We had gunboats and riverine vessels sunk in Vietnam too.

Commodore Haskell has a responsibility to eventually assist her CO - Gogunov, which sounds like a cheap Vodka or a sick version of Stroganoff - in getting free? At which point he can reassume command of the fleet? There should be assistance headed to Flag Bridge anyway. After all, there could be hidden medical issues. So she can't risk his death by being rebellious.

cthia wrote:Commodore Haskell has a responsibility to eventually assist her CO - Gogunov, which sounds like a cheap Vodka or a sick version of Stroganoff - in getting free? At which point he can reassume command of the fleet? There should be assistance headed to Flag Bridge anyway. After all, there could be hidden medical issues. So she can't risk his death by being rebellious.

I gotta wonder if when S&R get to the Flag Bridge they will find Gogunov's suit has suffered battle damage and regrettably did not survive the missile onslaught. It happened with Sandra Crandall, it could happen here....

Of course I doubt those are the only two alive on Flag Bridge, so the question is does Haskell have the courage to murder Gogunov to save millions of rebels lives.

She could be hoping everyone on Flag Bridge turned blind, but it would still take courage to make happen.

ZVar wrote:

cthia wrote:Commodore Haskell has a responsibility to eventually assist her CO - Gogunov, which sounds like a cheap Vodka or a sick version of Stroganoff - in getting free? At which point he can reassume command of the fleet? There should be assistance headed to Flag Bridge anyway. After all, there could be hidden medical issues. So she can't risk his death by being rebellious.

I gotta wonder if when S&R get to the Flag Bridge they will find Gogunov's suit has suffered battle damage and regrettably did not survive the missile onslaught. It happened with Sandra Crandall, it could happen here....

Of course I doubt those are the only two alive on Flag Bridge, so the question is does Haskell have the courage to murder Gogunov to save millions of rebels lives.

She could be hoping everyone on Fag Bridge turned blind, but it would still take courage to make happen.

I doubt she'd off him, since there seems to be a bit of respect and a certain softness for him on her part. Sort of approaching the kind of thing Honor had for Courvoisier, or it could have been if he hadn't been such a total assho— err wholeass.

Curious. Isn't everything occurring on Flag Bridge recorded? Even so, I'm sure she would be able to erase the evidence, same as Shannon was about to do. Although it seems access by code should be necessary to prevent just anyone from destroying Bridge files. Shannon was a tac-witch extraordinaire sitting at tactical at the time. Sounds like a pipe dream trying to keep Miss OOPS from access anyway.

cthia wrote:

cthia wrote:Commodore Haskell has a responsibility to eventually assist her CO - Gogunov, which sounds like a cheap Vodka or a sick version of Stroganoff - in getting free? At which point he can reassume command of the fleet? There should be assistance headed to Flag Bridge anyway. After all, there could be hidden medical issues. So she can't risk his death by being rebellious.

ZVar wrote:I gotta wonder if when S&R get to the Flag Bridge they will find Gogunov's suit has suffered battle damage and regrettably did not survive the missile onslaught. It happened with Sandra Crandall, it could happen here....

Of course I doubt those are the only two alive on Flag Bridge, so the question is does Haskell have the courage to murder Gogunov to save millions of rebels lives.

She could be hoping everyone on Fag Bridge turned blind, but it would still take courage to make happen.

I doubt she'd off him, since there seems to be a bit of respect and a certain softness for him on her part. Sort of approaching the kind of thing Honor had for Courvoisier, or it could have been if he hadn't been such a total assho— err wholeass.

Curious. Isn't everything occurring on Flag Bridge recorded? Even so, I'm sure she would be able to erase the evidence, same as Shannon was about to do. Although it seems access by code should be necessary to prevent just anyone from destroying Bridge files. Shannon was a tac-witch extraordinaire sitting at tactical at the time. Sounds like a pipe dream trying to keep Miss OOPS from access anyway.

She has no intention of erasing the evidence or of offing him. None.

That isn't how she operates.

And there is precedent under the SLN JMC for removing a superior who is issuing illegal orders due to mental incapacity from the chain of command by force, if necessary. Whether or not she and the flag captain can make that stand up in front of a court is another matter entirely, of course, but they can damn well keep him off-line until it's too late for him to do anything about it and then face the piper.

Is there some reason you think either of these ladies would lack the moral fortitude to do just that?

cthia wrote:

cthia wrote:Commodore Haskell has a responsibility to eventually assist her CO - Gogunov, which sounds like a cheap Vodka or a sick version of Stroganoff - in getting free? At which point he can reassume command of the fleet? There should be assistance headed to Flag Bridge anyway. After all, there could be hidden medical issues. So she can't risk his death by being rebellious.

ZVar wrote:I gotta wonder if when S&R get to the Flag Bridge they will find Gogunov's suit has suffered battle damage and regrettably did not survive the missile onslaught. It happened with Sandra Crandall, it could happen here....

Of course I doubt those are the only two alive on Flag Bridge, so the question is does Haskell have the courage to murder Gogunov to save millions of rebels lives.

She could be hoping everyone on Fag Bridge turned blind, but it would still take courage to make happen.

I doubt she'd off him, since there seems to be a bit of respect and a certain softness for him on her part. Sort of approaching the kind of thing Honor had for Courvoisier, or it could have been if he hadn't been such a total assho— err wholeass.

Curious. Isn't everything occurring on Flag Bridge recorded? Even so, I'm sure she would be able to erase the evidence, same as Shannon was about to do. Although it seems access by code should be necessary to prevent just anyone from destroying Bridge files. Shannon was a tac-witch extraordinaire sitting at tactical at the time. Sounds like a pipe dream trying to keep Miss OOPS from access anyway.

runsforcelery wrote:She has no intention of erasing the evidence or of offing him. None.

That isn't how she operates.

And there is precedent under the SLN JMC for removing a superior who is issuing illegal orders due to mental incapacity from the chain of command by force, if necessary. Whether or not she and the flag captain can make that stand up in front of a court is another matter entirely, of course, but they can damn well keep him off-line until it's too late for him to do anything about it and then face the piper.

Is there some reason you think either of these ladies would lack the moral fortitude to do just that?

None here. And I'm glad you brought that point up and reminded me of a certain whining I've been choking down since SoV that has finally been eased by Haskell. I don't recall a single Solarian officer who displayed the same sort of intestinal fortitude that officers like Theisman, Shannon, Honor & Co., displayed by refusing certain orders they knew were morally bankrupt. I first began whining way back in SoV when the SL officers failed to follow their gut and refuse to rain KEWS down upon the unsuspecting heads of so-called "terrorists" even though they knew it was wrong.

So, I'm just tickled pink that there is a little humanity left in at least a couple of SL officers.