Oyster Harbor?

CmdrAthenaAprilist wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:No, it was always Oyster Bay. Which doesn't mean that I didn't miss-speak while dictating to Dragon. And, of course, when I proofed, I saw what I knew was supposed to be there. Alas, I am less than perfect! I know this will come to everyone as a dreadful shock, but there it is.

I always thought "Oyster Bay" was a reference to the town on Long Island, location of Sagamore Hill, Teddy Roosevelt's "summer White House". But perhaps that's carrying the historical references too far!

It's a Pearl Harbor thing. Which makes it a terrible codename, but whatever...

kzt wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:No, it was always Oyster Bay. Which doesn't mean that I didn't miss-speak while dictating to Dragon. And, of course, when I proofed, I saw what I knew was supposed to be there. Alas, I am less than perfect! I know this will come to everyone as a dreadful shock, but there it is.

CmdrAthenaAprilist wrote:I always thought "Oyster Bay" was a reference to the town on Long Island, location of Sagamore Hill, Teddy Roosevelt's "summer White House". But perhaps that's carrying the historical references too far!

It's a Pearl Harbor thing. Which makes it a terrible codename, but whatever...

Well, of course it's an awful code name if you want to keep it a secret! Both the Alignment and the SL are terrible about picking code names, and I did that deliberately.

On the SL's part its pure arrogance; they use operational names only as shorthand without any real thought about concealing the real purpose of the mission because, after all, who could possibly hack their files or do anything about it even if they did? I mean "Buccaneer" for a plan to launch deniable raids and blame them on someone else to justify an OFS takeover in the region? "Raging Justice" for an attack on the SKM? Sheesh! I believe Honor actually even comments on this tendency in UC.

As for the MA, their theory is that if anyone ever gets close enough to them to pick up on their internal code names, their Master Plan is, like, totally screwed, dude. Thus their charming tendency to call a sneak attack "Oyster Bay" (although, to be fair, we're talking about an attack that happened a couple thousand years ago, so in thisinstance the MA didn't even realize there was any sort of resonance with their name for the op; that was my little joke) or, more seriously, to name a plan designed to disappear all trace of their existence "Houdini." They might's well call 'em anything they like, because if anyone ever picks up enough about them to have access to the code name, the covert side of their strategy will already have gone belly up.

runsforcelery wrote:

kzt"[quote="runsforcelery wrote:No, it was always Oyster Bay. Which doesn't mean that I didn't miss-speak while dictating to Dragon. And, of course, when I proofed, I saw what I knew was supposed to be there. Alas, I am less than perfect! I know this will come to everyone as a dreadful shock, but there it is.

CmdrAthenaAprilist wrote:I always thought "Oyster Bay" was a reference to the town on Long Island, location of Sagamore Hill, Teddy Roosevelt's "summer White House". But perhaps that's carrying the historical references too far!

It's a Pearl Harbor thing. Which makes it a terrible codename, but whatever...

Well, of course it's an awful code name if you want to keep it a secret! Both the Alignment and the SL are terrible about picking code names, and I did that deliberately.

On the SL's part its pure arrogance; they use operational names only as shorthand without any real thought about concealing the real purpose of the mission because, after all, who could possibly hack their files or do anything about it even if they did? I mean "Buccaneer" for a plan to launch deniable raids and blame them on someone else to justify an OFS takeover in the region? "Raging Justice" for an attack on the SKM? Sheesh! I believe Honor actually even comments on this tendency in UC.

As for the MA, their theory is that if anyone ever gets close enough to them to pick up on their internal code names, their Master Plan is, like, totally screwed, dude. Thus their charming tendency to call a sneak attack "Oyster Bay" (although, to be fair, we're talking about an attack that happened a couple thousand years ago, so in thisinstance the MA didn't even realize there was any sort of resonance with their name for the op; that was my little joke) or, more seriously, to name a plan designed to disappear all trace of their existence "Houdini." They might's well call 'em anything they like, because if anyone ever picks up enough about them to have access to the code name, the covert side of their strategy will already have gone belly up.[/quote]


The PN was no slouch at using operational code names that were a dead giveaway. Remember in FiE when Citizen Admiral Thurston(?) initiated operations Stalking Horse and Dagger?

From a narrative POV it makes a lot of sense not to have a half dozen random names like “tile wheelbarrow”, “monkey beam”, “ivy bells”, and “elite sail” being discussed. It’s like the Czech and Polish names in another book.

But the reason why people in real life use meaningless code names, and possibly different code names for the same operation with different elements, is to deal with people who are not cleared figuring out stuff from overhearing a few words.

kzt wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:No, it was always Oyster Bay. Which doesn't mean that I didn't miss-speak while dictating to Dragon. And, of course, when I proofed, I saw what I knew was supposed to be there. Alas, I am less than perfect! I know this will come to everyone as a dreadful shock, but there it is.

CmdrAthenaAprilist wrote:I always thought "Oyster Bay" was a reference to the town on Long Island, location of Sagamore Hill, Teddy Roosevelt's "summer White House". But perhaps that's carrying the historical references too far!

It's a Pearl Harbor thing. Which makes it a terrible codename, but whatever...

runsforcelery wrote:Well, of course it's an awful code name if you want to keep it a secret! Both the Alignment and the SL are terrible about picking code names, and I did that deliberately.

On the SL's part its pure arrogance; they use operational names only as shorthand without any real thought about concealing the real purpose of the mission because, after all, who could possibly hack their files or do anything about it even if they did? I mean "Buccaneer" for a plan to launch deniable raids and blame them on someone else to justify an OFS takeover in the region? "Raging Justice" for an attack on the SKM? Sheesh! I believe Honor actually even comments on this tendency in UC.

As for the MA, their theory is that if anyone ever gets close enough to them to pick up on their internal code names, their Master Plan is, like, totally screwed, dude. Thus their charming tendency to call a sneak attack "Oyster Bay" (although, to be fair, we're talking about an attack that happened a couple thousand years ago, so in thisinstance the MA didn't even realize there was any sort of resonance with their name for the op; that was my little joke) or, more seriously, to name a plan designed to disappear all trace of their existence "Houdini." They might's well call 'em anything they like, because if anyone ever picks up enough about them to have access to the code name, the covert side of their strategy will already have gone belly up.

Actually, I always thought Oyster Bay was quite clever. I rather doubt taken out of context anyone will make the connection to Pearl Harbor. As readers, we're privileged purveyors of ONI files. Anyway, I still think it's clever.

It reminds me of something my mom used to say. There are 11 of us siblings. Mom would always say "Ask for eleven different opinions, you get. . . eleven different opinions."

The League is also terrible at picking ship names and even system names.

The DZUNG SYSTEM?

Oh come on! Naming a system after animal droppings? Really? Throwing a "Z" in there isn't going to change the fact that it's do do.

No imagination atall. I suppose when you have about 10k ships and 10k systems you've named, it gets hard not to call them things like "Ragweed" and "Do Do."

cthia wrote:The DZUNG SYSTEM?

Oh come on! Naming a system after animal droppings? Really? Throwing a "Z" in there isn't going to change the fact that it's do do.

No imagination atall. I suppose when you have about 10k ships and 10k systems you've named, it gets hard not to call them things like "Ragweed" and "Do Do."

I seem to remember that Dzung is a Vietnamese name.

Joat42 wrote:

cthia wrote:The DZUNG SYSTEM?

Oh come on! Naming a system after animal droppings? Really? Throwing a "Z" in there isn't going to change the fact that it's do do.

No imagination atall. I suppose when you have about 10k ships and 10k systems you've named, it gets hard not to call them things like "Ragweed" and "Do Do."

I seem to remember that Dzung is a Vietnamese name.

It's actually Chinese, although given the amount of cultural bleed over between China and Vietnam, I'm sure it's relatively common in both cultures.

saber964 wrote:The PN was no slouch at using operational code names that were a dead giveaway. Remember in FiE when Citizen Admiral Thurston(?) initiated operations Stalking Horse and Dagger?

My favorite was Icarus.

Rajani Isa wrote:My favorite was Icarus.

And Tourville or someone was complaining how it wasn't Daedalus instead.

How about Operation Wooden Horse or Rat Poison.