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Uncompromising honor snippet #10 (?)

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Re: Uncompromising honor snippet #10 (?)
Post by cthia   » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:53 pm

cthia
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Eagleeye wrote:
cthia wrote:It seems the SLN still suffers from inexperience. No member of the GA would hyper into a potentially deadly system where enemy fire may be lurking and assume you've arrived first. Without sending in a pattern of drones into the inner system to clear the advance.

It is obvious that Vice Admiral Hajdu Gyôzô attained his rank by stealing from the poor and giving to the richly arrogant.


I don't know if I'd call it inexperience. It's more like an ingrained habit and a lack of imagination - or so I read it, at least. After all, at the time he arrives, Hypatia is still part of the Solarian League (even if Kolokoltsov and his cronies are afraid that the referendum will change that) - and so, in a way, friendly territory. And there's textev that he knew about the peculiarities of the systems policies - like, that they don't announce referendum results until the last ballot is truely accounted for, for example.

In addition, he simply couldn't imagine, that Hypatia would call for a manticoran presence in the system before the referendum was officially finished. Ok, that you could possible put under the headline of inexperience - after all, somehow one has to learn (and survive the experience) that even the most improbable events can actually happen, especially in a warlike situation like this. And the SLN didn't fought any war for several centuries, as we all know.


Indeed, and very good points Eagleeye. It's just that they expected it in the case of Beowulf, and even sent tonnage long before the fact in hopes of bullying their political weight around. Why not expect it for Hypatia as well, since the dominoes are beginning to fall? Which, as you've agreed, is something that certainly wouldn't have been missed by any of the T's and H's — Harrington, Hearns, Henke, Hemphill, Tourville and Theisman — in the GA; some of the more experienced cream of the crop. I'd just like to see them - was expecting them to or at least hoping they would - send someone to do the job in UC that actually appears to have earned the command. It's not as if it's still business as usual for them where they're dealing with a bunch of frightened, inexperienced system defense forces. They should have long gotten a handle on that.

I decided to throw Hemphill in the mix since she's part of the advising team. Albeit, it isn't fair since it seems to be no one atall advising the SLN.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Uncompromising honor snippet #10 (?)
Post by SYED   » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:52 pm

SYED
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1345
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:03 pm

Mantises changes the rules of battle for space ships, before it was ship to ship combat, now missiles rule. So the league ships would be limited in their missile capabilities. I am pretty sure that the war also improved the Mantie ships energy weapons so they could punch above their weight class slightly in ship to ship combat.

The current in system task force might be seriously outnumbered even with their advantages, but remember they are just playing for time for reinforcements to arrive or the evacuations to be complete.

How many Buccaneers task forces might there be? Sure the league has a huge fleet, but that is dispersed. Also, such a unit would need the new missiles in case they encounter enemy forces if they hope to survive.
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Re: Uncompromising honor snippet #10 (?)
Post by Randomiser   » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:13 pm

Randomiser
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Spoiler if you haven't read the Sneak Peek, - but then what are you doing here? Oh well, I told you






The Mantie commander has a Nike BC, three SaganamiB CAs and a Roland DD i.e. 5 ships and the Sollies have just excitedly spotted 9 bogies .... so at least 4 of those are decoys.
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Re: Uncompromising honor snippet #10 (?)
Post by JohnRoth   » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:29 pm

JohnRoth
Admiral

Posts: 2438
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Location: Centreville, VA, USA

Randomiser wrote:Spoiler if you haven't read the Sneak Peek, - but then what are you doing here? Oh well, I told you






The Mantie commander has a Nike BC, three SaganamiB CAs and a Roland DD i.e. 5 ships and the Sollies have just excitedly spotted 9 bogies .... so at least 4 of those are decoys.


If you want a spoiler, look at Tiny Snippet #5 - A Captain for Rose and Heather.

If you don't, then don't.
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Re: Uncompromising honor snippet #10 (?)
Post by SYED   » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:49 pm

SYED
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1345
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:03 pm

Could someone please post the estimated forces set to be deployed to that system? I think it was mentioned it would arrive in 48 hours the soonest.

Since the current alliance force is small I doubt the league fleet will be that dispersed. So when back up does come along,, with FTL comms, they could target their limited missile supply to deal with the enemy.
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Re: Uncompromising honor snippet #10 (?)
Post by JohnRoth   » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:25 pm

JohnRoth
Admiral

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Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:54 am
Location: Centreville, VA, USA

SYED wrote:Could someone please post the estimated forces set to be deployed to that system? I think it was mentioned it would arrive in 48 hours the soonest.

Since the current alliance force is small I doubt the league fleet will be that dispersed. So when back up does come along,, with FTL comms, they could target their limited missile supply to deal with the enemy.


From the "sneak peak":

Rear Admiral Kouteč wrote:
“Admiral Truman assures me she’ll send forward at least four more Bravos within the next seven or eight days. And Vukodlak should be out of the yard dogs’ hands a couple of days after that. As soon as she’s finished testing her repairs, she’ll be sent to join us along with a freighter load or two of system-defense pods. And by the time she gets to Hypatia, we’ll have worked out the best way to use her and be ready to start deploying the pods.”/


Vukoklak is a CLAC.
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Re: Uncompromising honor snippet #10 (?)
Post by Bill Woods   » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:08 am

Bill Woods
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JohnRoth wrote:
SYED wrote:Could someone please post the estimated forces set to be deployed to that system? I think it was mentioned it would arrive in 48 hours the soonest.

Since the current alliance force is small I doubt the league fleet will be that dispersed. So when back up does come along,, with FTL comms, they could target their limited missile supply to deal with the enemy.


From the "sneak peak":
Rear Admiral Kouteč wrote:
“Admiral Truman assures me she’ll send forward at least four more Bravos within the next seven or eight days. And Vukodlak should be out of the yard dogs’ hands a couple of days after that. As soon as she’s finished testing her repairs, she’ll be sent to join us along with a freighter load or two of system-defense pods. And by the time she gets to Hypatia, we’ll have worked out the best way to use her and be ready to start deploying the pods.”/

Vukoklak is a CLAC.
Well, if spoilering the "sneak peak" is no longer an issue...

I'd been thinking that this was going to be a gallant last stand — the first time the Manties lost, and left the Sollies with the opportunity to scavenge Mantie tech from the wreckage. But if they're throwing 360 missiles times nine-plus salvoes, maybe not. We know from the Saltash incident that, with the Mod-G warhead, 60 missiles per battlecruiser is massive overkill. If they allocate 20–30 per battlecruiser, they might get enough mission kills to send the survivors running.
----
Imagined conversation:
Admiral [noting yet another Manty tech surprise]:
XO, what's the budget for the ONI?
Vice Admiral: I don't recall exactly, sir. Several billion quatloos.
Admiral: ... What do you suppose they did with all that money?
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Re: Uncompromising honor snippet #10 (?)
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:34 am

Robert_A_Woodward
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Randomiser wrote:Spoiler if you haven't read the Sneak Peek, - but then what are you doing here? Oh well, I told you






The Mantie commander has a Nike BC, three SaganamiB CAs and a Roland DD i.e. 5 ships and the Sollies have just excitedly spotted 9 bogies .... so at least 4 of those are decoys.


I will have to check the final book when it comes out, but in the webscription (first half) that I downloaded on the 15th, there were only 4 bogies detected (and no destroyer in any case - a Roland class might be big, but nobody would ever refer to it as an oversized heavy cruiser).
----------------------------
Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: Uncompromising honor snippet #10 (?)
Post by munroburton   » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:41 am

munroburton
Admiral

Posts: 2375
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:16 am
Location: Scotland

Eagleeye wrote:
cthia wrote:It seems the SLN still suffers from inexperience. No member of the GA would hyper into a potentially deadly system where enemy fire may be lurking and assume you've arrived first. Without sending in a pattern of drones into the inner system to clear the advance.

It is obvious that Vice Admiral Hajdu Gyôzô attained his rank by stealing from the poor and giving to the richly arrogant.


I don't know if I'd call it inexperience. It's more like an ingrained habit and a lack of imagination - or so I read it, at least. After all, at the time he arrives, Hypatia is still part of the Solarian League (even if Kolokoltsov and his cronies are afraid that the referendum will change that) - and so, in a way, friendly territory. And there's textev that he knew about the peculiarities of the systems policies - like, that they don't announce referendum results until the last ballot is truely accounted for, for example.

In addition, he simply couldn't imagine, that Hypatia would call for a manticoran presence in the system before the referendum was officially finished. Ok, that you could possible put under the headline of inexperience - after all, somehow one has to learn (and survive the experience) that even the most improbable events can actually happen, especially in a warlike situation like this. And the SLN didn't fought any war for several centuries, as we all know.


I would call it inexperience too.

Consider that Honor Harrington herself, as a Captain, fell victim to the same sort of problem - at Yeltsin's Star. Fearless returned to the system and was ambushed by a Masadan LAC.

Several years later, Commodore Harrington was again ambushed and captured at Adler. However, Prince Adrian was a vanguard scout for a cruiser squadron and a convoy - which escaped a superior force unharmed. If this convoy had come in fat and happy like the SLN does...
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Re: Uncompromising honor snippet #10 (?)
Post by runsforcelery   » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:30 am

runsforcelery
First Space Lord

Posts: 2425
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:39 am
Location: South Carolina

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
Randomiser wrote:Spoiler if you haven't read the Sneak Peek, - but then what are you doing here? Oh well, I told you






The Mantie commander has a Nike BC, three SaganamiB CAs and a Roland DD i.e. 5 ships and the Sollies have just excitedly spotted 9 bogies .... so at least 4 of those are decoys.


I will have to check the final book when it comes out, but in the webscription (first half) that I downloaded on the 15th, there were only 4 bogies detected (and no destroyer in any case - a Roland class might be big, but nobody would ever refer to it as an oversized heavy cruiser).



I've mentioned several times (I think) that the earc is based on the original submission draft which is not the actual final draft. Because I actually got this book in early, I had more time to think things through and clarify/tweak at several points when I went back and reread after giving it a couple of months to clear out of my brain so I could come at it fresh. I think it improved in the process. Note that I am not saying your count is wrong here (not saying it's right, either :twisted:). I'm just saying there are going to be discrepancies between the earc and whatever I snippet here and that the snippets are from the now-canon version.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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