The Soul of Haven

roseandheather wrote:::whaps Cthia on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper::

BAD PUPPY. BACK IN YOUR CRATE.

Closes crate and hammers lid shut.

walks away

comes back and drills air holes, and drops some treats through said holes.

Dauntless wrote:

roseandheather wrote:::whaps Cthia on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper::

BAD PUPPY. BACK IN YOUR CRATE.

Closes crate and hammers lid shut.

walks away

comes back and drills air holes, and drops some treats through said holes.

::puppy communicates to smart parakeet::

"Animal cruelty! Animal cruelty! CALL ASPCA! 'SQUAWK!'" LOL

Louis R wrote:First, good as she was, there were 2 or 3 Peep admirals who were probably better, and with whom broad chunks of the Navy would have been a good deal happier.

That statement speaks for itself in McQueen's favor. Only 2 or 3 Peep admirals who were probably better. Even you acknowledge its up in the air.

The question though, is who was better to handle the defense of Trevor's Star? Specifically, making bricks without straw. If not her, those 2 or 3 probables may have ended up probably dead.

Topic of interest Honorverse Top Ten Tacticians, Strategists List.

In fact, this is an exchange in which I'm still fuming at my then 12-yr-old niece over...

For someone who is so into the navy and so strategically and technically savvy, I just can't see McQueen as a potential bad girl politically for Haven. I know that is being naive. But it simply rubs me the wrong way that McQueen is thought to be an awful candidate for the Soul of Haven comparable to Eloise. Instead of, simply, not have been as good.

Eloise strikes me as being a bit more sensitive and forgiving.

I wonder what would have happened to the Soul Of Haven had Hamish been allowed to push straight through to Noveau Paris for the win. I oftentimes wonder on what terms Beth would have accepted Eloise's surrender?

I also wonder what would have happened to The Soul of Haven had the RHN been successful at defeating Manticore under the rule of Saint-Just.

cthia wrote:I wonder what would have happened to the Soul Of Haven had Hamish been allowed to push straight through to Noveau Paris for the win. I oftentimes wonder on what terms Beth would have accepted Eloise's surrender?

Hamish never threatened Haven while Eloise was President. Hamish and Operation Buttercup was poised to press on into Haven orbit when McQueen's attempted coup left St Just in control. If St Just's cease fire hadn't been accepted it would have been St Just who surrendered, not Eloise.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:I wonder what would have happened to the Soul Of Haven had Hamish been allowed to push straight through to Noveau Paris for the win. I oftentimes wonder on what terms Beth would have accepted Eloise's surrender?

Hamish never threatened Haven while Eloise was President. Hamish and Operation Buttercup was poised to press on into Haven orbit when McQueen's attempted coup left St Just in control. If St Just's cease fire hadn't been accepted it would have been St Just who surrendered, not Eloise.

You're right of course. And I should have made my jumbled thoughts clearer to everyone, even though they aren't exactly all clear to me. LOL

At any rate, I was considering the point where the RMN and Beth were considering their options, before Eloise decided to hijack Haven One and derail future events. I may be wrong, but had it not been for Eloise's preemptive "vacation," Operation Buttercup — or some revised form of it — would have resumed. Eloise arrived in the MBS and made it quite clear to Beth that that wouldn't be necessary.

I was under the impression that the RMN could still beat the RHN at that point with the tech advantage they enjoyed with Apollo. It just wouldn't have left anything in the tank to wrestle the obese gorilla.

'Twas my thoughts at the time of that post w/o having checked textev, of course. My apology if again in error.

cthia wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:I wonder what would have happened to the Soul Of Haven had Hamish been allowed to push straight through to Noveau Paris for the win. I oftentimes wonder on what terms Beth would have accepted Eloise's surrender?

Hamish never threatened Haven while Eloise was President. Hamish and Operation Buttercup was poised to press on into Haven orbit when McQueen's attempted coup left St Just in control. If St Just's cease fire hadn't been accepted it would have been St Just who surrendered, not Eloise.

You're right of course. And I should have made my jumbled thoughts clearer to everyone, even though they aren't exactly all clear to me. LOL

At any rate, I was considering the point where the RMN and Beth were considering their options, before Eloise decided to hijack Haven One and derail future events. I may be wrong, but had it not been for Eloise's preemptive "vacation," Operation Buttercup — or some revised form of it — would have resumed. Eloise arrived in the MBS and made it quite clear to Beth that that wouldn't be necessary.

I was under the impression that the RMN could still beat the RHN at that point with the tech advantage they enjoyed with Apollo. It just wouldn't have left anything in the tank to wrestle the obese gorilla.

'Twas my thoughts at the time of that post w/o having checked textev, of course. My apology if again in error.[/quote]

Should I bother mentioning Mission of Honor where it is explicitly stated that Honor could have destroyed Haven's capital?

runsforcelery wrote:The SKM never lost its soul (although High Ridge came close);

But, with High Ridge, it certainly lost its mind.


::innocently plays in sand with foot::

cthia wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:I wonder what would have happened to the Soul Of Haven had Hamish been allowed to push straight through to Noveau Paris for the win. I oftentimes wonder on what terms Beth would have accepted Eloise's surrender?

Hamish never threatened Haven while Eloise was President. Hamish and Operation Buttercup was poised to press on into Haven orbit when McQueen's attempted coup left St Just in control. If St Just's cease fire hadn't been accepted it would have been St Just who surrendered, not Eloise.

cthia wrote:You're right of course. And I should have made my jumbled thoughts clearer to everyone, even though they aren't exactly all clear to me. LOL

At any rate, I was considering the point where the RMN and Beth were considering their options, before Eloise decided to hijack Haven One and derail future events. I may be wrong, but had it not been for Eloise's preemptive "vacation," Operation Buttercup — or some revised form of it — would have resumed. Eloise arrived in the MBS and made it quite clear to Beth that that wouldn't be necessary.

I was under the impression that the RMN could still beat the RHN at that point with the tech advantage they enjoyed with Apollo. It just wouldn't have left anything in the tank to wrestle the obese gorilla.

'Twas my thoughts at the time of that post w/o having checked textev, of course. My apology if again in error.

ldwechsler wrote:Should I bother mentioning Mission of Honor where it is explicitly stated that Honor could have destroyed Haven's capital?

Thanks for dotting the 'i' and crossing the 't.'

Though, did the RMN have enough Apollo missiles to destroy Haven's capital, w/o simultaneously uncovering the Home system's blanket of Apollo coverage? Wouldn't it have had to leave itself bare? Like, well, it did?

Which could have resulted in some sort of a stalemate? Of sorts? Though for the life of me, I cannot figure out how that unlikely but totally possible scenario would have been resolved.

cthia wrote:
Thanks for dotting the 'i' and crossing the 't.'

Though, did the RMN have enough Apollo missiles to destroy Haven's capital, w/o simultaneously uncovering the Home system's blanket of Apollo coverage? Wouldn't it have had to leave itself bare? Like, well, it did?

Which could have resulted in some sort of a stalemate? Of sorts? Though for the life of me, I cannot figure out how that unlikely but totally possible scenario would have been resolved.

At least they thought so, and because there was no other enemy to be seen at the horizon, they were probably right in this assumption. After all, the situation with the SL at the time Honor was sent to New Paris was not yet at a level you would starting to loose sleep about and Oyster Bay hadn't happened, too - so, the manticoran military industry was at its top level and still rising. They could rightly assume that any missiles Honor had to use (if it came to that contingency) could not only be replaced but additional ones could be added to them, too. So, no stalemate in sight.

That Oyster Bay turned that assumption upside down (and proved once more, that "if you assume something you make an ass out of u and me") is another matter entirely ...